Mid-Acts Dispensationalism (Hyperdispensationalism)

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Sonoftheday

Puritan Board Sophomore
This past week I had a discussion with someone who holds to this Hyperdispensationalism. I had never heard of this teaching and he didnt call it by name but after listening to him lecture me for an hour and half cause I didnt hold to dispensationalism I had plenty of information to get online and find out what this strange teaching was. He said a number of things that I found very disturbing.
He said Jesus, James, Peter, John all taught a different gospel than Paul was given.
Paul's epistles are the writings that contain the doctrine for the Church, or for this dispensation of Grace.
The dispensation of Grace began with the Jerusalem council in acts 15.
He took offense to me saying that Jesus is enthroned in heaven now.
He also stated that the church is not the people of God, Israel is the people of God, the church is the "body of Christ".

Here is a website I found that seemed to align quite well with he was trying to teach me. Basics of Mid-Acts Dispensationalism

This is the Table of contents from the site.

1. Dispensational Theology distinguishes between Israel and the Church
2. Unaware that Jesus will be crucified, the 12 preach the gospel of the kingdom
3. Isaiah chapter 53
4. Rightly dividing the word: A scriptural necessity
5. The new covenant did NOT begin with the birth of Christ
6. Circumcision: The TOKEN of the Abrahamic Covenant
7. The children of Israel were to SEPARATE themselves from the Gentiles
8. God promised to BLESS those who blessed Abraham's "seed", the nation of Israel
9. Gentiles were excluded from Christ's earthly ministry
10. In Acts 10, Cornelius does not portray today's salvation of Uncircumcised Gentiles
11. Even in Acts 3, Israel was STILL the "seed" through whom the nations were blessed
12. The "Great Commission", being prophetic, was interrupted
13. The "dispensation of grace": Prophecy interrupted; an unprophesied mystery begins
14. Grecians, in Acts chapters 6 and 11, were Greek-speaking JEWS, not Gentiles
15. The book of James was not written to Gentiles
16. The Apostle Paul - 14 passages which state that he is the Lord's Spokesman to the Gentiles

How would respond to this type of statements. They are clearly outside of Orthodoxy, but do they come into the category of heresy? Have any of you had any experience dealing with this false theology before?
 

Sonoftheday

Puritan Board Sophomore
Oh yes, I know A LOT about it. I know many people who hold to this.

Are you able to even have a civil Christian discussion with them?? I could not discuss anything with this guy without getting jumped on. So I gave up and encouraged him to tell me more first in looking for common ground then just trying to understand what he was talking about. I could not even talk about Jesus Christ and Him crucified. His dispensationalism is his ultimate hermeneutic. Everything in the scripture must be put onto the time line before anything can be understood. And what drives me nuts is that all of their main points are not taking from didactic passages, or if they are they are not the point of the didactic passage. Anyways this guy knew a lot of scripture but without a Christ centered hermeneutic it all seemed nonsense to me.
 

ReformedWretch

Puritan Board Doctor
I can talk about soteriology with them , for the most part, but that's about it. I've been desperate to find some talking points for this kind of thinking but I never have.

His dispensationalism is his ultimate hermeneutic

ABSOLUTELY!!
 

Manuel

Puritan Board Freshman
I think that's classic dispensationalism, not necessarily "hyper". I see a lot of those teachings in classic dispensationalists like Lockyer, Pentecost, Ryrie, Lindsay, etc.
 

blhowes

Puritan Board Professor
I think that's classic dispensationalism, not necessarily "hyper". I see a lot of those teachings in classic dispensationalists like Lockyer, Pentecost, Ryrie, Lindsay, etc.
Just wondering, how would hyper dispensationlism differ from classic dispensationalism?
 

baron

Puritan Board Graduate
If any one wants to learn more go to Grace Impact Home Page They seem to hold that the church started in Acts 28. They do not believe in the Lord's Supper, Baptism, Forgiveness, only a Jewish person can be born again, Gentiles do not need to repent, and some other things. They have a nice chart of what they believe.

My wife and I were at my pastors house last night and we watched Forgotten Truths (I think that was the name) and I came away not knowing if we could witness to a Jewish person or if a Jewish person could be saved. The man forget his name taught that the Church is not the bride of Christt that Israel is Gods wife, and that Abraham was looking for an earthly city the new Jerusalem and not a home in heaven. At least I think thats what he ment. They seem to use a lot of scripture to confuse you and keep you going in circles.

There was another program before this one with Les Feldick I think he teaches the same but did not see him last night. These shows are on Direct TV channel 367 starting at 8:30 pm for Les and 9:00 pm for Forgotten Truths.

I think these people love Paul more than Jesus Christ I could be wrong but thats the impression I get. It's all Paul and Paul the gospels and Jesus is for the Little Flock.
 
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Sonoftheday

Puritan Board Sophomore
If any one wants to learn more go to Grace Impact Home Page They seem to hold that the church started in Acts 28. They do not believe in the Lord's Supper, Baptism, Forgiveness, only a Jewish person can be born again, Gentiles do not need to repent, and some other things. They have a nice chart of what they believe.

My wife and I were at my pastors house last night and we watched Forgotten Truths (I think that was the name) and I came away not knowing if we could witness to a Jewish person or if a Jewish person could be saved. The man forget his name taught that the Church is not the bride of Christt that Israel is Gods wife, and that Abraham was looking for an earthly city the new Jerusalem and not a home in heaven. At least I think thats what he ment. They seem to use a lot of scripture to confuse you and keep you going in circles.

There was another program before this one with Les Feldick I think he teaches the same but did not see him last night. These shows are on Direct TV channel 367 starting at 8:30 pm for Les and 9:00 pm for Forgotten Truths.

I think these people love Paul more than Jesus Christ I could be wrong but thats the impression I get. It's all Paul and Paul the gospels and Jesus is for the Little Flock.

This would be Ultradispensationalism.

Regular Dispensationalism says that the "Church Age" began with Acts 2.
Hyperdispensationalism says the church didnt start till Acts 8, or Acts 15.
Ultradispensationalism says the Church didnt begin until Acts 28.

So there are slight differences between Hyper and Ultra, but I am unsure as to what they are. Some Hypers believe in water baptism but not all. Some hold that the 12 were members of the church while others do not. I believe Ultras all deny the inclusion of the 12 in the body of Christ and they deny water baptism.

Both errors teach that Jesus and his disciples preached a different gospel even in the book of acts than Paul did. So they hold to at least 3 different gospels (some hold to 4). They preached the Gospel of the Kingdom before Calvary. Then they preached the Gospel of Baptism after Calvary. Then Paul preached the Gospel of Faith in Christ's sacrificial death as the only requirement for salvation. They also teach different means of salvation for each gospel. here is a chart I found last night. Greek Hebrew Theology
 

blhowes

Puritan Board Professor
[Both errors teach that Jesus and his disciples preached a different gospel even in the book of acts than Paul did. So they hold to at least 3 different gospels (some hold to 4). They preached the Gospel of the Kingdom before Calvary. Then they preached the Gospel of Baptism after Calvary. Then Paul preached the Gospel of Faith in Christ's sacrificial death as the only requirement for salvation.
I was taught about the different gospels back in my Dispensational days. I've often wondered about the Gospel Jesus proclaimed and the Gospel Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians:
Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:​

How can it be shown that the content of the gospels was the same?
 

Turtle

Puritan Board Freshman
[Both errors teach that Jesus and his disciples preached a different gospel even in the book of acts than Paul did. So they hold to at least 3 different gospels (some hold to 4). They preached the Gospel of the Kingdom before Calvary. Then they preached the Gospel of Baptism after Calvary. Then Paul preached the Gospel of Faith in Christ's sacrificial death as the only requirement for salvation.
I was taught about the different gospels back in my Dispensational days. I've often wondered about the Gospel Jesus proclaimed and the Gospel Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians:
Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:​

How can it be shown that the content of the gospels was the same?


Perhaps the primary point of congruence is their origin--the Gospel as told in the Old Testament, perhaps especially beginning in Isaiah 52, or Jer. 30, or Ez. 36, etc. The "different Gospels" they speak of are like the different stories that a group of blind men tell you regarding their discovery of what an elephant is. One blind man says the elephant is like a great tree, one says it is like a big heavy snake, and another says it is like a big rough wall.

Isn't it a bit "blind men and elephant:D" to select different aspects of the same Gospel and declare they are distinctly different rather than parts of the same whole?

Bryan

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