Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
So I take it that you reject the London Baptist Confession?
"with fastings, and thanksgivings, upon special occasions"
Merry Turkeymas day
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So I take it that you reject the London Baptist Confession?
"with fastings, and thanksgivings, upon special occasions"
Ben Zartman
Puritan Board Junior
Those are to mean occasions of special deliverance from extraordinary difficulties, not occasions hallowed by the unbelieveing world around. To use it as a justification for following the world after their groves and high places is to wrest the meaning of the confession out of shape. Gillespie deals with this issue ably, though I don't have his quote ready to hand.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
So they are OK if you say they are OK, but not OK if your Elders call for them?
Ben Zartman
Puritan Board Junior
Two things would make them OK:
1) If the reason they were being called was legitimate. To do something because the world is doing something flies in the face of Deut. 12:30. This is the same reason we must guard carefully the style of music we select for singing. But that's aside.
2) If the actions done were legitimate. What is a religious service? Prayer, singing, preaching, etc. But that every person should stand up and say what they're thankful for just then is not part of regulated worship. Is this a wrong thing to do? Not in itself, but on the Lord's day, when an actual service is cancelled for the sake of this, it becomes abominable.
The LBCF states that God is not to be worshiped according to the inventions of men. If Thanksgiving Day is not an invention of men, I don't know what is.
"What meaneth this lowing of cattle in my ears?...."
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Compare that to the Baptist Confession:
" Prayer, with thanksgiving, being one part of natural worship, is by God required of all men."
and
" moreover, solemn humiliation, with fastings, and thanksgivings, upon special occasions, ought to be used in an holy and religious manner."
OPC'n
Puritan Board Doctor
I've never read the Baptist Confession, but do you really believe that it's talking about America's Thanksgiving day? Seem very odd and strange for them to be referring to our Thanksgiving day instead of referring to the church being thankful to God in all things.
Ben Zartman
Puritan Board Junior
Again, the limitations are special occasions and in a holy and religious manner. Deut. 12:30 means that it is impossible to put a holiday of the world to a holy and religious use.
If the church had an experience of sin like Corinth, and was to seek repentance in solemn humiliation with fasting, there would then be warrant to have a special occasion of thanksgiving. That's what the LBCF is allowing.
As to the first quoted portion, I say that if we are neglecting the proper amount of thanksgiving in our weekly services, (which I don't think we are: prayer with thanksgiving is part of our regular worship), then following the world's example of being thankful one day a year won't make up the deficit. If we are expressing a decent amount of thanks throughout the year, what business have we calling an occasion we are not enjoined to by Scripture? And if we were to have special Lord's Days of extra thanksgiving, why ever would we do it just because the world has been pleased to? The church must not allow the world to regulate her habits and practice--this is the burden of Deut. 12:30
Ben Zartman
Puritan Board Junior
We also may by all means celebrate civil holidays, and if the government were to require their keeping, it would be our duty to do so, as long as they did not cause the breaking of God's law. But no government can lawfully enjoin a holiday that would make folk break the Sabbath, and I'm willing to bet that the weekly Sabbath in the OT trumped Purim.
I'll take the day and say "thank you very much" for the opportunity to feast. Josh was spot on. It's not a commanded day, but nor is giving thanks prohibited. Would it be that we would give public thanks to our God more often. As for the football and shopping, any good thing can be abused.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
When discussing with Baptists, I refer to the LBC.
When discussing with RCs, I refer, when possible, to the Catholic Confession and cite Douay-Rheims when the the translation is adequate. I've even been known to quote the Catholic Confession here a time or two.
It can be helpful to familiarize oneself with both (and the strengths and weaknesses of each).
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Well, please provide me with a list of the dates upon which scripture proscribes giving thanks.
Ben Zartman
Puritan Board Junior
I think you're misunderstanding. You may have all the extraordinary days of giving thanks that you wish to. But what you may not do is alter the regular worship of God simply because the world has been pleased to call a day.
By all means celebrate the Thanksgiving holiday on Thursday if you like. But to change the Sunday activities of the church for no other reason than that the world "gave thanks" last Thursday is wrong.
The church may not lay on any man's conscience a duty that God has not enjoined. Yet to do on the Lord's Day, as an assembly of the church, a thing that God has NOT required is to violate the RPW. If everyone spouting what they're thankful for in turn is regulated worship, then why does it only happen this time of year? Once? There are 51 other Lord's Days--if this is right, then surely it is right more often. If it is not part of regulated worship, then it is always wrong.
I think, Edward, you don't understand the RPW, and you're purposely misunderstanding the LBCF.
EVERY Lord's day is to include the giving of thanks, among other things--but that giving of thanks must be done according to the RPW.
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