Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
[quote:3292616dd2="Learner"]I agreed with parts of your post Patrick.But there were other segments in which I take issue or have questions about.
You said "The offer as a present fits in."Did you mean to say that offer is a presentation,proclamation or declaration? [/quote:3292616dd2]
When you asked if the offer was a "present or presentation" I thought you meant "gift or presentation." So reread my post in that light.
[quote:3292616dd2]
I'm wondering about your statement:'How can a reprobate make God a liar if in fact Christ is not offered to him at all?"I am confused by that.Most reprobates have never heard the Gospel--never heard of Christ. [/quote:3292616dd2]
But there are many reprobate who have heard or will hear. And John is speaking of those who refuse to believe in that verse. By not believing what God has said concerning his Son, by not coming to Christ for salvation, they call Him a liar. But if the message regarding Christ is not offered or binding in any way to the reprobate, then they are not calling God a liar for rejecting it, because the message was not for them. But the gospel is a message for all men, because Christ is the only true Savior available to all men.
[quote:3292616dd2]
It is understood that you believe that it is God's good pleasure,not to save,but to harden the reprobates by the preaching of the gospel.You do believe that,right?
So,God seeks His own glory and justification in preparing the reprobate for their just damnation even through the preaching of His Word.The preacher, or any Christian, must not say that God sincerely seeks the salvation of the reprobate. God cannot seek the salvation of those He has foreordained not to save from eternity past.
In other words He doesn't want that sinner to live whom He does not choose to quicken.He does not want that one whom He does not give faith to accept the Gospel.God does not will that sinner to come to Christ which He has not drawn.Are you in agreement?
God is sovereign in His dispositions.We need not be cold about it.We should have a real burden for the lost.If we do not care for eternal souls,we have cause to doubt our own salvation.There is a balance here.[/quote:3292616dd2]
I am not saying God "wants" or "desires" the reprobate to be saved. I don't think I have ever even hinted at that. What I am saying is that God's word is true regardless of who hears it. You must distinguish between the secret and revealed will of God. God has told everyone who hears the gospel that they must believe on Christ in order to have eternal life. This isn't just some abtract truth. This is personal. When the gospel comes to someone, God is personally telling them the way to be saved. God is setting up Christ before them (just like Moses lifting up the serpent) and telling them, "Here is my way of salvation, look to Him and live, look away and perish." Christ himself is saying to all sinners through the preaching of the Gospel, "Look to Me and be saved." This is just the plain facts, whether you are reprobate or elect. You notice, there is no qualifier. Jesus didn't say "If you are elect, believe on Me." We don't know who the elect are. Only God does. We must tell all people we meet that there is a Savior for mankind. That is the revealed will of God. Whether they will look to him or not is up to God's secret work not ours.
We are told to invite men to come, to compel, to warn, rebuke, exhort, beseech, etc. And this method of delivering the message is made regardless of who is elect or reprobate because we can't know. This is a personal invitation from God to whomever hears. And we must treat it as such. It's just like Moses and his messengers telling the people about the serpent. The offer is real and available to all. The invitation to the feast is real and reliable to whomever it comes to. The promise is true regardless of who hears it. If they would come to Christ, they will be saved. I don't think I can get any more clearer than that but I will still try if need be.
You said "The offer as a present fits in."Did you mean to say that offer is a presentation,proclamation or declaration? [/quote:3292616dd2]
When you asked if the offer was a "present or presentation" I thought you meant "gift or presentation." So reread my post in that light.
[quote:3292616dd2]
I'm wondering about your statement:'How can a reprobate make God a liar if in fact Christ is not offered to him at all?"I am confused by that.Most reprobates have never heard the Gospel--never heard of Christ. [/quote:3292616dd2]
But there are many reprobate who have heard or will hear. And John is speaking of those who refuse to believe in that verse. By not believing what God has said concerning his Son, by not coming to Christ for salvation, they call Him a liar. But if the message regarding Christ is not offered or binding in any way to the reprobate, then they are not calling God a liar for rejecting it, because the message was not for them. But the gospel is a message for all men, because Christ is the only true Savior available to all men.
[quote:3292616dd2]
It is understood that you believe that it is God's good pleasure,not to save,but to harden the reprobates by the preaching of the gospel.You do believe that,right?
So,God seeks His own glory and justification in preparing the reprobate for their just damnation even through the preaching of His Word.The preacher, or any Christian, must not say that God sincerely seeks the salvation of the reprobate. God cannot seek the salvation of those He has foreordained not to save from eternity past.
In other words He doesn't want that sinner to live whom He does not choose to quicken.He does not want that one whom He does not give faith to accept the Gospel.God does not will that sinner to come to Christ which He has not drawn.Are you in agreement?
God is sovereign in His dispositions.We need not be cold about it.We should have a real burden for the lost.If we do not care for eternal souls,we have cause to doubt our own salvation.There is a balance here.[/quote:3292616dd2]
I am not saying God "wants" or "desires" the reprobate to be saved. I don't think I have ever even hinted at that. What I am saying is that God's word is true regardless of who hears it. You must distinguish between the secret and revealed will of God. God has told everyone who hears the gospel that they must believe on Christ in order to have eternal life. This isn't just some abtract truth. This is personal. When the gospel comes to someone, God is personally telling them the way to be saved. God is setting up Christ before them (just like Moses lifting up the serpent) and telling them, "Here is my way of salvation, look to Him and live, look away and perish." Christ himself is saying to all sinners through the preaching of the Gospel, "Look to Me and be saved." This is just the plain facts, whether you are reprobate or elect. You notice, there is no qualifier. Jesus didn't say "If you are elect, believe on Me." We don't know who the elect are. Only God does. We must tell all people we meet that there is a Savior for mankind. That is the revealed will of God. Whether they will look to him or not is up to God's secret work not ours.
We are told to invite men to come, to compel, to warn, rebuke, exhort, beseech, etc. And this method of delivering the message is made regardless of who is elect or reprobate because we can't know. This is a personal invitation from God to whomever hears. And we must treat it as such. It's just like Moses and his messengers telling the people about the serpent. The offer is real and available to all. The invitation to the feast is real and reliable to whomever it comes to. The promise is true regardless of who hears it. If they would come to Christ, they will be saved. I don't think I can get any more clearer than that but I will still try if need be.
