Main Differences between AMil/Preterism/PostMil ?
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Doulos McKenzie
Puritan Board Freshman
ahemAmil is the correct viewpoint.....that's the only major differences that comes to mind at the moment
Postmill*
Which flavor of postmil though, reconstruction/Theonomy, or what?
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
In a sense sure. They are optimistic with regard to the Gospel being spread throughout most of the world and most believe in the conversion of the Jewish people. Partial Preterism is basically moot to this discussion. Anybody can be one, it deals largely with 70 AD as the event that Jesus predicted as well as some OT prophets. One can be a Preterist premill, amill, or post mil. I waffle between amill and postmill but I am a Preterist.
You would not be a full blown one though, as you still hold to the actual Second Coming as still in the Future.
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
Yes. It is unfortunate that anymore there has to be differentiation. FPers are basically reactionary dispensationalists. They are jaded by the latter system pushing everything into the future when it is pretty evident, contextually and historically that it occurred in the Jewish wars. Yet, they have the same mindset that the Olivet Discourse must be about the second coming like futurists, that and every other possible mention of the day of the Lord, coming/presence, etc. Partial preterists differentiate, rightly, according to the context.
I as holding to a futurist view would indeed see some prophecy already fulfilled in AD 70, but not all of it fulfilled, as there is still much left to be done .
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
There are four main views of how Revelation is to be read:
Preterists (from the Latin for past) view most of what is described in Revelation as having already taken place, especially around 70AD.
Historicists view the book as describing events throughout the whole of the period between the first coming of Christ and the last day.
Futurists view the book as mainly describing events in the future.
Idealists view the book as a book of symbols which represent spiritual principles which are true throughout history.
Additionally, there are three main views of how to understand the millennium in particular:
Postmillennialists believe that Christ will return after the millennium.
Premillennialists believe that Christ will return before the millennium.
Amillennialists (or, nonmillenialists) don't believe the millennium represents an actual period of history.
Preterists (from the Latin for past) view most of what is described in Revelation as having already taken place, especially around 70AD.
Historicists view the book as describing events throughout the whole of the period between the first coming of Christ and the last day.
Futurists view the book as mainly describing events in the future.
Idealists view the book as a book of symbols which represent spiritual principles which are true throughout history.
Additionally, there are three main views of how to understand the millennium in particular:
Postmillennialists believe that Christ will return after the millennium.
Premillennialists believe that Christ will return before the millennium.
Amillennialists (or, nonmillenialists) don't believe the millennium represents an actual period of history.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
Yes. They may also disagree on what will happen between now and the return of Christ.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Yes. Partial preterist is a hermeneutical method and is logically distinct from millennial categories (though it would probably rule out premil).
What is the main difference between partial and A Mil, as to me both seem to be saying about the same thing?
Ben Zartman
Puritan Board Junior
I believe most Amils are also partial preterists--not sure if it's logically possible to be amil and not partial pret.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Amil is the timing of the millennium. Partial preterism is whether the specific referents in Matt 24 et al, Rev. refer to the original audience or to Hal Lindsey.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Kuyper was amil and futurist. Riddlebarger rejects partial preterism.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
Most amils are actually idealists, though I have run across a few who are preterists.
zsmcd
Puritan Board Freshman
Challies has come out with this helpful infographic on the millennial positions. Click the picture to enlarge.
https://www.challies.com/visual-theology/the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-an-infographic/
https://www.challies.com/visual-theology/the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-an-infographic/
I thought that those holding to the A Mil position saw all prophecy being future though in the sense of the second coming and the eternal state has the only prophecy left to be fulfilled ?
They would then seem to be 2 separate and distinct viewpoints.
Good summary chart, and looks like Post Mil only view that sees society and culture getting better, while we premils and amils see it getting worse until the Second Coming event.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
True, but some amils like to say they are "optimistic amils." Cornelius van Til, speaking as an amillennialist, put the brakes on that kind of reasoning. He said that when the day comes, when God withdraws his common grace, the crack of doom will sound and covenant-breakers will try to annihilate covenant-keepers.
Sounds like he was describing it becoming much worse before the Second Coming.
dece870717
Puritan Board Freshman
I thought Dr. John MacArthur did a very good and thorough sermon series on this topic https://www.gty.org/library/topical...-every-calvinist-should-be-a-premillennialist
6 hours essentially, but if you listen at 1.20-1.50x speed using VLC player it'll go by a bit faster lol. I really didn't have a strong or confident position on Eschatology until listening to the entire series.
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This excerpt from Part 1 makes me convinced that tradition plays a crucial role over the issue of millennialism
"I remember when I flew to Kazakstan(?), in about a 35 or 38 hour flight. Got off the plane at seven o'clock in the morning to speak at a conference, there were 1600 pastors from central Asia, the first Central Asian Pastors Conference in history after the breakup of the Soviet Union. And I went there and I spoke for a week and they finally said to me, "When are you going to tell us the good part?"
I said, "Well what's the good part?"
They said, "We don't know about the future. We want to know about the future. Tell us about the future." They were in a very hopeless situation, having very little in life.
I said, "Sure, I'll take all day Friday, I'll tell you the future." So I just marched them through the order of the chronology of eschatology as it's laid out clearly both in the Old and the New Testament. And I finished, I had no idea what they believed...1600 pastors and leaders from central Asia. I never have even been there. And the group that led the conference came to me afterwards with smiles on their faces and said, "You believe exactly what we believe." This isn't something for people who have been highly educated, this is something for people who haven't been corrupted by education.I was talking to one of our missionaries just this same week I gave this talk to the pastors, and he was coming back from China and he said, "There's only one view in the church in China and it's the pre-millennial view.""
6 hours essentially, but if you listen at 1.20-1.50x speed using VLC player it'll go by a bit faster lol. I really didn't have a strong or confident position on Eschatology until listening to the entire series.
-------
This excerpt from Part 1 makes me convinced that tradition plays a crucial role over the issue of millennialism
"I remember when I flew to Kazakstan(?), in about a 35 or 38 hour flight. Got off the plane at seven o'clock in the morning to speak at a conference, there were 1600 pastors from central Asia, the first Central Asian Pastors Conference in history after the breakup of the Soviet Union. And I went there and I spoke for a week and they finally said to me, "When are you going to tell us the good part?"
I said, "Well what's the good part?"
They said, "We don't know about the future. We want to know about the future. Tell us about the future." They were in a very hopeless situation, having very little in life.
I said, "Sure, I'll take all day Friday, I'll tell you the future." So I just marched them through the order of the chronology of eschatology as it's laid out clearly both in the Old and the New Testament. And I finished, I had no idea what they believed...1600 pastors and leaders from central Asia. I never have even been there. And the group that led the conference came to me afterwards with smiles on their faces and said, "You believe exactly what we believe." This isn't something for people who have been highly educated, this is something for people who haven't been corrupted by education.I was talking to one of our missionaries just this same week I gave this talk to the pastors, and he was coming back from China and he said, "There's only one view in the church in China and it's the pre-millennial view.""
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So you are a fellow pre mil now then?
dece870717
Puritan Board Freshman
Yep, one of the few Reformed people that are.
Ask Mr. Religion
Flatly Unflappable
Careful examination by others notwithstanding of course:
http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/a-reply-to-john-macarthur/
JimmyH
Puritan Board Senior
With all due respect to Dr. MacArthur, I have his study Bible in hard copy and in the great app from Grace To You on my phone. I refer to his study notes a fair amount as long as it has nothing to do with eschatology. I'm confused enough already, but I'm sure I'm not pre-mill.
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