Lifelong Presbyterian is now Baptist

[Reformation Monk]

Well, I've been Presbyterian for 40 years and I'm now a Baptist.

I won't get into it too much, I realize it's a touchy subject.

But for me, after spending many many hours of study; I had to conclude that I no longer agree with infant baptism. There's a lot to be said there, but at the end of the day, I am convinced that the New Covenant is for disciples only.

Anyway, just thought I would share, again, I'm not boasting and there is no "hard feelings", this isn't a rant or anti-infant baptism thread. I just feel good about my decision. Now I need to get baptized.

 

[KMK]

You will also need to edit your profile to reflect your change in confessional subscription.

 

[JonathanHunt]

This is one of those threads one wants to reply to with some words of encouragement but fears to in case the same is misinterpreted as gloating!

 

[matthew11v25]

Out of curiosity...

Did you only change views on Baptism, or Church Government as well?

Most of the time I hear of Credos going to a Paedo position...not the other way around! So I am curious what argument, etc, caused the light bulb moment?

 

[Reformation Monk]

Out of curiosity...

Did you only change views on Baptism, or Church Government as well?

Most of the time I hear of Credos going to a Paedo position...not the other way around! So I am curious what argument, etc, caused the light bulb moment?

Well, it isn't just my change in views on Baptism; it does have to do with the whole Reformed Presbyterian Perspectives, but as far as actual "Church Government." that doesn't really have anything to do with my change. The actual running and organization process for me has never been an issue... although it is a product of the doctrinal views.

For me; I personally spend hours almost everyday either listening to scripture or online sermons. I find myself almost always gravitating to Baptist preachers. I guess for me, I tend to put a lot of emphasis in the Gospel.

I don't have anything against Good Reformed Presbyterianism. Again I'm not becoming a Baptist because I have any issues.

For me though, I just think that Presbyterianism still kind of holds on to some old Traditionalism. At the end of the day, infant baptism to me is putting a little too much focus on the Church and the Sacraments. It's hard to explain.

I've read and have listened to many many books and lectures on Covenant Theology. I just don't really see the New Covenant being just a continuation of the Old. I think that the New Covenant was meant to be and is a lot different. I have come to the conclusion that for me Baptism wasn't the New Covenant form of circumcision.

So it is because of my biblical views, it doesn't have anything to do with the actual church government.

 

[JoyFullMom]

So, would you say that you have left Covenant Theology for New Covenant Theology?

 

[Notthemama1984]

I guess for me, I tend to put a lot of emphasis in the Gospel.

Is this to say that Presbyterians do not?

 

[Reformation Monk]

So, would you say that you have left Covenant Theology for New Covenant Theology?

absolutely not.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

I guess for me, I tend to put a lot of emphasis in the Gospel.

Is this to say that Presbyterians do not?

For, me week in and week out, Baptist's seem to be a little more focused on the gospel; this is as much as I'm going to say on that point. Again, this isn't a rejecting/accepting issue for me. I'm not saying that I don't approve of Reformed Presbyterianism. I'm just saying that I personally am more comfortable with Reformed Baptist's Biblical perspectives now.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

 

[nicnap]

 

[Notthemama1984]

So, would you say that you have left Covenant Theology for New Covenant Theology?

absolutely not.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

I guess for me, I tend to put a lot of emphasis in the Gospel.

Is this to say that Presbyterians do not?

For, me week in and week out, Baptist's seem to be a little more focused on the gospel; this is as much as I'm going to say on that point. Again, this isn't a rejecting/accepting issue for me. I'm not saying that I don't approve of Reformed Presbyterianism. I'm just saying that I personally am more comfortable with Reformed Baptist's Biblical perspectives now.

I think you should say more. You are leveling the accusation that Presbyterians will stand behind a pulpit and preach something other than the Gospel at times.

 

[Andres]

For, me week in and week out, Baptist's seem to be a little more focused on the gospel; this is as much as I'm going to say on that point. Again, this isn't a rejecting/accepting issue for me. I'm not saying that I don't approve of Reformed Presbyterianism. I'm just saying that I personally am more comfortable with Reformed Baptist's Biblical perspectives now.

No, this isn't what you're saying. You have yet to give any type of scriptural support for why you decided to change positions. Now, I realize you may say that you are not required to do so, but I think that by starting this thread and then making some of the (mis)characterizations against Presbyterians you have made that the onus is in fact on you to further explain yourself or retract some of your statements with an apology.

 

[Herald]

So, would you say that you have left Covenant Theology for New Covenant Theology?

absolutely not.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

I guess for me, I tend to put a lot of emphasis in the Gospel.

Is this to say that Presbyterians do not?

For, me week in and week out, Baptist's seem to be a little more focused on the gospel; this is as much as I'm going to say on that point. Again, this isn't a rejecting/accepting issue for me. I'm not saying that I don't approve of Reformed Presbyterianism. I'm just saying that I personally am more comfortable with Reformed Baptist's Biblical perspectives now.

David, there aren't many Baptists on this board who are more Baptist than I am, but I just can't let this comment pass unchallenged. I understand that you don't want to get into a baptism debate; but making that sort of comment followed by, "this is as much as I'm going to say on that point" doesn't fly. I disagree with my Presbyterian brethren on baptism and polity, but I embrace them in their love for the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. I really think you should explain your comment because it is quite offensive to Presbyterians.

 

[Andres]

If I'm not mistaken, folks, Mr. Sumner comes from a PCUSA background; ergo, that might explain his "gospel emphasis" comment. It doesn't justify it, but it might help us understand why he could, in good conscience, say such a thing if all the Presbyterianism he's known has been the PCUSA.

He said he spends hours each day reading and listening to sermons. You mean to tell me in all those hours upon hours, he's never stumbled upon Sinclair Ferguson, R.C. Sproul, Joel Beeke, Ligon Duncan, or Derek Thomas?

 

[Andres]

You mean to tell me in all those hours upon hours, he's never stumbled upon Sinclair Ferguson, R.C. Sproul, Joel Beeke, Ligon Duncan, or Derek Thomas?

Dear Andrew, I have no idea. I'm simply trying to frame his comments with the most charity I can muster until he has opportunity to clarify his comments.

Josh, I thought you knew it all? I understand and I will await David's further comments. David, have you listened to/read any Presbyterians other than liberal PCUSA "ministers"?

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

With all due respect to the OP (Welcome to the Dark Side) I request that the moderators take this thread down. I know I am a simple low life sophomore (almost junior!!) but the comments thus far have left much to the imagination in regard to intent so I think the possibilty for 9th commandment violations is large.

 

[Pilgrim]

With all due respect to the OP (Welcome to the Dark Side) I request that the moderators take this thread down. I know I am a simple low life sophomore (almost junior!!) but the comments thus far have left much to the imagination in regard to intent so I think the possibilty for 9th commandment violations is large.

I would agree. He said he is not looking to debate but he posted in this forum, which is basically a debate forum. He said he doesn't want to get into it, but the board being what it is, that will be unavoidable if the thread remains open. Yes, the comment about Baptists focusing more on the gospel is controversial, but I don't think the thread is likely to improve at this point.

 

[matthew11v25]

Very good point! I get so used to thinking of Presbyterian in terms of RPCGA, PCA, OPC, etc...NOT PCUSA

 

[Contra_Mundum]

**Moderating**
Responding to several suggestions for closing the thread: No, not at this time.

Personally, I haven't seen anything (starting with the OP) that would move me to add input the thread.
And if the Reformation Monk indulges the replies or queries with more extensive answers, rather than ignoring them, then he's changed his own stated purpose for beginning the thread. It is posted in the "Baptism" forum... Don't engage if you can't be patient and civil, especially when dealing with a fellow member who is congealing his theology, really for the first time.

Everyone, behave yourselves.

 

[Jeffriesw]

**Moderating**
Responding to several suggestions for closing the thread: No, not at this time.

Personally, I haven't seen anything (starting with the OP) that would move me to add input the thread.
And if the Reformation Monk indulges the replies or queries with more extensive answers, rather than ignoring them, then he's changed his own stated purpose for beginning the thread. It is posted in the "Baptism" forum... Don't engage if you can't be patient and civil, especially when dealing with a fellow member who is congealing his theology, really for the first time.



Everyone, behave yourselves.

Well said.

 

[TimV]

Well, paedobaptists are still ahead 99 to 1 in numbers, so I personally don't feel threatened.

 

[Notthemama1984]

His opening thread on the board says he was from the Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Synod.

 

[bookslover]

David: You DO know that, now that you've switched from Presbyterianism to Baptist, when you get to heaven, your beer will be slightly warmer than everyone else's, and your dwelling place will be moved back to where the generators and air conditioning units are, right? KIDDING! LOL

Also, your cigars will NOT be gen-u-wine Cubans, natch!

 

[Notthemama1984]

If I'm not mistaken, folks, Mr. Sumner comes from a PCUSA background; ergo, that might explain his "gospel emphasis" comment. It doesn't justify it, but it might help us understand why he could, in good conscience, say such a thing if all the Presbyterianism he's known has been the PCUSA. If all I knew about Presybterianism was from the PCUSA, I'd become a baptist too.

His opening thread on the board says he was from the Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Synod.

Does that mean he doesn't come from a PCUSA background? I would think that one is not limited to having only one example of theological background in this overly optional country of ours. His profile states that his current denomination is PCUSA.

I was attempting to state that because he has spent time in the PCA (according to his bio), Missouri Synod, and Wisconsin Synod, one cannot use the excuse of being in the PCUSA as reason for making the claims he made in this thread.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

Well, paedobaptists are still ahead 99 to 1 in numbers, so I personally don't feel threatened.

99 to 1 based on what numbers? and what exactly would there be to be threatened by?

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

David: You DO know that, now that you've switched from Presbyterianism to Baptist, when you get to heaven, your beer will be slightly warmer than everyone else's, and your dwelling place will be moved back to where the generators and air conditioning units are, right? KIDDING! LOL

Also, your cigars will NOT be gen-u-wine Cubans, natch!

Even though we might be Backseat Baptists we will still enjoy the finer things of life.

 

[VictorBravo]

Well, paedobaptists are still ahead 99 to 1 in numbers, so I personally don't feel threatened.

99 to 1 based on what numbers? and what exactly would there be to be threatened by?

Bill, I think this might be considered a hyperbolic joke. The numbers may be inexact, but they might be close for all I know. But the most important thing is that TimV is not easily threatened by anything and he is not unfamiliar with some hardcore Baptists. . . .

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

**Moderating**
Responding to several suggestions for closing the thread: No, not at this time.

Personally, I haven't seen anything (starting with the OP) that would move me to add input the thread.
And if the Reformation Monk indulges the replies or queries with more extensive answers, rather than ignoring them, then he's changed his own stated purpose for beginning the thread. It is posted in the "Baptism" forum... Don't engage if you can't be patient and civil, especially when dealing with a fellow member who is congealing his theology, really for the first time.

Everyone, behave yourselves.

Fair enough. This is why I am not a moderator...yet. I am planning a mutiny! Not really.

 

[Reformation Monk]

Well, as to my tobacco and ale preferences, I actually like Nicaraguan Puro's over Cuban, I prefer a good VaPer like Escudo and I like my Shiner Bock ( I'm from Texas )

Again, this isn't an anti-presbyterian thread.... I was just stating that I've been personally convinced by Scripture to be Credo Baptist.

I have spent time in the Lutheran Church but I've never been Lutheran.

I've spent most of my life in the PCUSA but I have been in the PCA for a couple of years.

I've been Reformed for nearly 10 years.

I have an extensive Library of Reformed Books and have learned my Reformed Faith and again I have listened to countless hours of sermons and lectures online.


All I ment by my earlier statement, is that most Reformed Baptists tend to put a little more emphasis on the gospel message in their weekly sermons then the Presbyterians do, that's all.... Presbyterians tend to be a little more expository, but over all no less gospel centered.

Again, wasn't trying to make a "negative statement" about Presbyterianism... I was just trying to draw a Baptist distinctive or tendency.

After listening to many Reformed Baptist preachers on SermonAudio.com and then many PCA and OPC pastors, over and over again... it has just been my observation that Baptists tend to have a little more focus on the efficacy of the "pronouncement of the gospel" or the "gospel call". Presbyterians seem to put a little more focus on the efficacy of the Church and Sacraments....

But I'm probably wrong; anyway... again this has influenced my decision but just a little, again, it's mainly just boiling down to I just think that the doctrine of infant baptism is a stretch. Again I know Covenant Theology very well, I could get a lot more theological, but that wasn't the intent of this thread, I just wanted to share with everyone that I've decided to become Baptist. Sorry I didn't mean for it to be negative in anyway.

 

[JonathanHunt]

Sounds reasonable to me. Time to let it rest, I'd say.