Larry Hughes
Puritan Board Sophomore
Matthew,
I am not promoting "mysticism", that is about as absurd a statement as I've ever heard. What you call mysticism I call the very heart of saving faith. It is NOT mystical to say I "œlove because He first loved me", it is pointing out the heart of the real Gospel and the real Law. Love is not mystical it is action but it issues forth from the heart or it is not at all, no matter what action is taken by the hands. Christ Himself makes that explicitly clear and He does not promote "œmysticism". You think I´m speaking against deeds, you are sorely wrong and make a gross false assumption. I´m going to the heart of deeds and true fruit. The fruit that is true fruit of the Spirit issues from the tree already made, it is the tree that matters for false fruit is EASILY produced, you must have faith first or you have nothing at all, deeds or otherwise.
The Gospel takes the Law from a cold dead letter and writes it upon the heart so that it IS desired to be done. There is nothing mystical about that rather the power of God´s Spirit through the holy Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is now done from the heart and not due to a "œfear of punishment or hope of reward" for all is had in Christ alone. There is absolutely NOTHING mystical about a thief ceasing to steal with his very real hands as a Christian because FIRST God has loved Him in Christ and this former thief is so absolutely assured of Christ FOR HIM that he now ceases to steal FROM THE HEART. There´s NOTHING mystical about that and by the way THAT IS WORK DONE BY THE HANDS (emphasis added "“ ldh) issuing forth from a willing heart MADE willing by the Gospel and not the Law as dead letter. Oh, one can threaten an unconverted thief with punishment and prevent the thief but his heart would rather steal. All one has made here is a Pharisee or twice the son of hell as he was before when he was an open thief and performed what his heart actually desired.
To love the Law of God is to LOVE IT FROM THE HEART and this is done when the Gospel is pure to the man. The Law becomes not some dead letter we have to "œdo" in order to be assured of God´s grace, but a thing we increasingly love to do from a heart that loves the Law. But the switch becomes such that it issues forth from the heart and such that at length the instruction is not needed, rather it is natural (though in this life we are sinners and saints simultaneously, thus the battle Paul describes). If we did not have the old man still apart of us, ideally, we would love God´s law SO much that it would be our VERY NATURE. And as our very nature we would hardly need the letter for it would be natural to us. That is no mysticism AT ALL.
I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not leading down a path of lasciviousness as you falsely charge. To be quite frank I doubt that our lives are all that different and I DO serve and love my neighbor, but I do so driven by the Gospel (though I don´t know your life anymore than you mine, but that is not the point). The point is the Gospel gives the power that the Law can never do. The irony between us is I´m actually saying the Gospel gives the power unto the very good works you think I´m speaking against. You think I´m speaking against the Law when in fact I´m trying to show the way in which the Law becomes the heart of the believer by the Gospel. You fail to see, time and time again that there is absolutely no difference in a thief seeking for himself by stealing from another and the religious do gooder who does some outward "œgood works" with his hands to another with the appearance of "œhelping neighbor" but all along he is trying to save or assure himself of salvation by his doing. The latter is actually a greater thief than the former. At least the open thief is being honest about his inward curving sin. He, the former open thief, will not at least think his open thievery is a virtue whereby he pleases man or God. However, the later, the do gooder, will be deeply deceived by his outward appearing work because it "œlooks good" and is headed on his way blindly to hell. For his selfishness is GREATER than the open thief. The open thief thinks he lives by the paltry earthly items he steals, that´s why he stills. But the do gooder thinks he lives eternally by an outward deed he does to another. But the later is NOT really doing it FOR his neighbor but for himself, thus proving his sin to be greater. This is why Jesus could say that the sinners and tax collectors would actually see the kingdom of heaven before the Pharisees. For very few would consider open theft as a virtue. But MANY would consider "œdo gooder" works as a virtue. The man in greater danger of thinking he is working his way to heaven, either directly or seeking assurance, is the one doing virtuous works.
This is not against true good works at all. This is the very battle the Reformers warred with Rome against. They too were accused of eschewing good works and deeds. But NOTHING was further from the truth. For they held to justification by faith alone strenuously so that true good works would arise. And they arise from a heart that is freed by the pure Gospel, that is the fruit of faith.
I'm not promoting lasciviousness as you falsely charge of me or leading to a careless carefree life in fact I´m trying to show the opposite. And I re-iterate, even from Jude, which I´ve read numerous times, just because men abuse the grace of God, the Gospel, NEVER gives us license to alter its powerful pure message. In fact Jude presupposes this. He does not say, "œtweak the message of the Gospel because evil men are abusing it or give them a "˜corrective´ to the Gospel because lascivious men are abusing it". He says, "œungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." They actually turn the grace of God, the grace of God is not changed itself, the message is still the same, but that THEY turn it into licentiousness themselves. Which if you will note very carefully is a return to the inward curving, again licentiousness like ALL sin is this selfish gain and inward curving. They are those who do not believe, have faith, ceased to trust in him and hence they turn back to themselves. They have taken the free grace of God and used it to continue to seek out "œlife" (they suppose) in themselves. They are still inwardly curved and seeking themselves. They think the grace of God is still yet the selfish inward path of seeking the self and life for themselves.
Hypothetically, if you ran across such a person, say as in James, what is their real need? Do you hammer them with deeds to vivify a faith that doesn´t exist, vivifying a dead faith with works? What would we call that in protestant circles? Would such "œconvert them"? Hardly, what they need is to still see their desperate situation via the Law and then the Gospel. If you take one with dead faith though in the fold of the church, that is one who has no saving faith but one who by definition has NO saving faith but a false faith and you say, "œdo good works" what do you have? Have you REALLY fixed the problem? Well, what do you have when you have an unbeliever never before "œconverted", never before in the fold of the church, who is doing much good works on the outside trying to work their way to heaven. Do you say, "œWell done sir. Surely you will go to heaven for such fine good works." Of course not because in both cases, fundamentally, you have the exact same thing a deceived religious person, like the Dalhi Lama.
Do you think the devil a poor general and that he has a hard time deceiving us? We are hardly a challenge for him, he sifts us just like Peter with ease. Of course the devil is going to bring lascivious men to abuse the Gospel so he can drive ignorant men back to a legal pathway and destroy the Gospel altogether. It matters little to him if he drives men to works directly or indirectly, it matters little which side of the fence he attacks the Gospel "“ just so long as men´s eyes are blinded of it.
2 Corinthians 4:3-5, "œAnd even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake."
Again, this is the exact accusation leveled at Paul and was leveled again by Rome at the Reformers when the Gospel was so foisted up. Oh, no I´m not speaking against deeds done by the hands, but rather where these true deeds come from and that is a heart that has been set free and is assured of this very freedom through Christ crucified and risen for them to do them. This sentence I gave, "œIf you do something for me then thank you for your love, but if you do them to save yourself, assure yourself of salvation, have certitude for yourself and etc"¦ then do bother I don´t want your sin." Was calculated to reveal the religious sinner in us all. If you or I want to do good works for someone, then by all means DO them FOR THEM and not with an eye toward salvation, assurance, etc"¦ Because "œgood works" done for that reason are no good works AT ALL and are not done BY US FOR THEM, but we do them BY US TO THEM FOR OURSELF. And hence false good works. Now that being said I´ll address one last thing. We are STILL simultaneously sinners and saint, Romans 7, and we can in no way do ANY good deeds altruistically in this life, thus we lament we cannot do the good we desire to do but yet desire to do it (actually loving the Law). Thus, AGAIN, we need the Gospel to carry us through even that! In short you are relieved of worrying about your "œgood deeds" score card because of the Gospel. You are literally free to serve in all capacities and need no church yard piety or church box of "œthese here are good works" and the rest is useless secular work.
Always to You Blessings in Christ alone,
Larry
I am not promoting "mysticism", that is about as absurd a statement as I've ever heard. What you call mysticism I call the very heart of saving faith. It is NOT mystical to say I "œlove because He first loved me", it is pointing out the heart of the real Gospel and the real Law. Love is not mystical it is action but it issues forth from the heart or it is not at all, no matter what action is taken by the hands. Christ Himself makes that explicitly clear and He does not promote "œmysticism". You think I´m speaking against deeds, you are sorely wrong and make a gross false assumption. I´m going to the heart of deeds and true fruit. The fruit that is true fruit of the Spirit issues from the tree already made, it is the tree that matters for false fruit is EASILY produced, you must have faith first or you have nothing at all, deeds or otherwise.
The Gospel takes the Law from a cold dead letter and writes it upon the heart so that it IS desired to be done. There is nothing mystical about that rather the power of God´s Spirit through the holy Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is now done from the heart and not due to a "œfear of punishment or hope of reward" for all is had in Christ alone. There is absolutely NOTHING mystical about a thief ceasing to steal with his very real hands as a Christian because FIRST God has loved Him in Christ and this former thief is so absolutely assured of Christ FOR HIM that he now ceases to steal FROM THE HEART. There´s NOTHING mystical about that and by the way THAT IS WORK DONE BY THE HANDS (emphasis added "“ ldh) issuing forth from a willing heart MADE willing by the Gospel and not the Law as dead letter. Oh, one can threaten an unconverted thief with punishment and prevent the thief but his heart would rather steal. All one has made here is a Pharisee or twice the son of hell as he was before when he was an open thief and performed what his heart actually desired.
To love the Law of God is to LOVE IT FROM THE HEART and this is done when the Gospel is pure to the man. The Law becomes not some dead letter we have to "œdo" in order to be assured of God´s grace, but a thing we increasingly love to do from a heart that loves the Law. But the switch becomes such that it issues forth from the heart and such that at length the instruction is not needed, rather it is natural (though in this life we are sinners and saints simultaneously, thus the battle Paul describes). If we did not have the old man still apart of us, ideally, we would love God´s law SO much that it would be our VERY NATURE. And as our very nature we would hardly need the letter for it would be natural to us. That is no mysticism AT ALL.
I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not leading down a path of lasciviousness as you falsely charge. To be quite frank I doubt that our lives are all that different and I DO serve and love my neighbor, but I do so driven by the Gospel (though I don´t know your life anymore than you mine, but that is not the point). The point is the Gospel gives the power that the Law can never do. The irony between us is I´m actually saying the Gospel gives the power unto the very good works you think I´m speaking against. You think I´m speaking against the Law when in fact I´m trying to show the way in which the Law becomes the heart of the believer by the Gospel. You fail to see, time and time again that there is absolutely no difference in a thief seeking for himself by stealing from another and the religious do gooder who does some outward "œgood works" with his hands to another with the appearance of "œhelping neighbor" but all along he is trying to save or assure himself of salvation by his doing. The latter is actually a greater thief than the former. At least the open thief is being honest about his inward curving sin. He, the former open thief, will not at least think his open thievery is a virtue whereby he pleases man or God. However, the later, the do gooder, will be deeply deceived by his outward appearing work because it "œlooks good" and is headed on his way blindly to hell. For his selfishness is GREATER than the open thief. The open thief thinks he lives by the paltry earthly items he steals, that´s why he stills. But the do gooder thinks he lives eternally by an outward deed he does to another. But the later is NOT really doing it FOR his neighbor but for himself, thus proving his sin to be greater. This is why Jesus could say that the sinners and tax collectors would actually see the kingdom of heaven before the Pharisees. For very few would consider open theft as a virtue. But MANY would consider "œdo gooder" works as a virtue. The man in greater danger of thinking he is working his way to heaven, either directly or seeking assurance, is the one doing virtuous works.
This is not against true good works at all. This is the very battle the Reformers warred with Rome against. They too were accused of eschewing good works and deeds. But NOTHING was further from the truth. For they held to justification by faith alone strenuously so that true good works would arise. And they arise from a heart that is freed by the pure Gospel, that is the fruit of faith.
I'm not promoting lasciviousness as you falsely charge of me or leading to a careless carefree life in fact I´m trying to show the opposite. And I re-iterate, even from Jude, which I´ve read numerous times, just because men abuse the grace of God, the Gospel, NEVER gives us license to alter its powerful pure message. In fact Jude presupposes this. He does not say, "œtweak the message of the Gospel because evil men are abusing it or give them a "˜corrective´ to the Gospel because lascivious men are abusing it". He says, "œungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." They actually turn the grace of God, the grace of God is not changed itself, the message is still the same, but that THEY turn it into licentiousness themselves. Which if you will note very carefully is a return to the inward curving, again licentiousness like ALL sin is this selfish gain and inward curving. They are those who do not believe, have faith, ceased to trust in him and hence they turn back to themselves. They have taken the free grace of God and used it to continue to seek out "œlife" (they suppose) in themselves. They are still inwardly curved and seeking themselves. They think the grace of God is still yet the selfish inward path of seeking the self and life for themselves.
Hypothetically, if you ran across such a person, say as in James, what is their real need? Do you hammer them with deeds to vivify a faith that doesn´t exist, vivifying a dead faith with works? What would we call that in protestant circles? Would such "œconvert them"? Hardly, what they need is to still see their desperate situation via the Law and then the Gospel. If you take one with dead faith though in the fold of the church, that is one who has no saving faith but one who by definition has NO saving faith but a false faith and you say, "œdo good works" what do you have? Have you REALLY fixed the problem? Well, what do you have when you have an unbeliever never before "œconverted", never before in the fold of the church, who is doing much good works on the outside trying to work their way to heaven. Do you say, "œWell done sir. Surely you will go to heaven for such fine good works." Of course not because in both cases, fundamentally, you have the exact same thing a deceived religious person, like the Dalhi Lama.
Do you think the devil a poor general and that he has a hard time deceiving us? We are hardly a challenge for him, he sifts us just like Peter with ease. Of course the devil is going to bring lascivious men to abuse the Gospel so he can drive ignorant men back to a legal pathway and destroy the Gospel altogether. It matters little to him if he drives men to works directly or indirectly, it matters little which side of the fence he attacks the Gospel "“ just so long as men´s eyes are blinded of it.
2 Corinthians 4:3-5, "œAnd even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake."
Again, this is the exact accusation leveled at Paul and was leveled again by Rome at the Reformers when the Gospel was so foisted up. Oh, no I´m not speaking against deeds done by the hands, but rather where these true deeds come from and that is a heart that has been set free and is assured of this very freedom through Christ crucified and risen for them to do them. This sentence I gave, "œIf you do something for me then thank you for your love, but if you do them to save yourself, assure yourself of salvation, have certitude for yourself and etc"¦ then do bother I don´t want your sin." Was calculated to reveal the religious sinner in us all. If you or I want to do good works for someone, then by all means DO them FOR THEM and not with an eye toward salvation, assurance, etc"¦ Because "œgood works" done for that reason are no good works AT ALL and are not done BY US FOR THEM, but we do them BY US TO THEM FOR OURSELF. And hence false good works. Now that being said I´ll address one last thing. We are STILL simultaneously sinners and saint, Romans 7, and we can in no way do ANY good deeds altruistically in this life, thus we lament we cannot do the good we desire to do but yet desire to do it (actually loving the Law). Thus, AGAIN, we need the Gospel to carry us through even that! In short you are relieved of worrying about your "œgood deeds" score card because of the Gospel. You are literally free to serve in all capacities and need no church yard piety or church box of "œthese here are good works" and the rest is useless secular work.
Always to You Blessings in Christ alone,
Larry
