"L" in TULIP

Discussion in 'Calvinism & The Doctrines of Grace' started by johnny_redeemed, May 5, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:8630e021bc][i:8630e021bc]Originally posted by johnny_redeemed[/i:8630e021bc]
    [quote:8630e021bc]For God SO LOVED the world that he sent His Son for those who are believing (i.e. the elect). [/quote:8630e021bc]

    i agree with everything you said. :thumbup: i am a Calvinist. i know that only the elect will believe and thus be saved. but look at the way you "reworded" (and rightly so given the context) John 3:16, you still said loved the WORLD? that is the part that is troubling to me. remember this got started when a guy (sorry i forgot who) said that God does not love some people. [/quote:8630e021bc]

    my name is Josh


    could someone, hopfully Joshua, respond to this?

    [Edited on 5-11-2004 by johnny_redeemed]
     
  2. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Here is the definition of "world".

    Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


    John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


    Peoples out of all parts of the world.............If God gave His Son for everyone, then why is not everyone saved? Christ is THE sacrifice. This sacrifice pays the penalty for whom? The elect or the world? For the elect! Well, if the word "world" in J 3:16 means just that, every single individual that has lived, then Christ has paid the penalty for them also, no? Salvation is not actuated by the receivers. Believing does not catalize salvation. Men believe because God comes to them, i.e. election, otherwise, one must embrace with universalistic ideas and arminianism. There is no way around this.

    Also, I suggest doing a Google search on the word 'kosmos'. You will find excellent examples out there. The issue has been exhausted.

    Pink does an excellent job here:
    http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sovereignty/appendix_03.htm



    [Edited on 5-8-2004 by Scott Bushey]
     
  3. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:db7f2bf023][i:db7f2bf023]Originally posted by joshua[/i:db7f2bf023]Josh,
    I'm sorry. I've been out with my family all day and didn't have opportunity to respond. Scott took good care of it, though. Thanks Dr. Bushey! [/quote:db7f2bf023]

    i do not think he did. he went too ther verse and showed that there the word world does not mean all men everywhere, but he did not in john 3:16.

    please show me in the context of john 3 that thw word worls should be limited.

    please remember i am a clavinist. i agree with almost everything scott said. i know that God saves and we do not. i am talking about His love. i just want to see how in john 3 God's love should be limited.

    [Edited on 5-11-2004 by johnny_redeemed]
     
  4. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    why can't we say that God loved all of humanity that he gave His son so save some of them. i guess i just do not see the problem of saying God can love a person, in one sense, and yet not save them.

    i read what you wrote and was unconvinced that God only loves some. not all.

    remember i am not saying God loves all in a salvation way. all i am saying is God loves all in a certain sense i.e. he shows them love by creating them, he loves them by letting rain fall on there crops.
     
  5. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    JR,
    Did you take the time to read the Pink paper?
     
  6. A_Wild_Boar

    A_Wild_Boar Puritan Board Freshman

    Here it is from Pinks lesson.



    ==

    The word "kosmos," and its English equivalent "world," is not used with a uniform significance in the New Testament. Very far from it. It is used in quite a number of different ways. Below we will refer to a few passages where this term occurs, suggesting a tentative definition in each case:

    "Kosmos" is used of the Universe as a whole: Acts 17:24 - "God that made the world and all things therein seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth."

    "Kosmos" is used of the earth: John 13:1; Ephesians 1:4, etc., etc.- "When Jesus knew that his hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world He loved them unto the end." "Depart out of this world" signifies, leave this earth. "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world." This expression signifies, before the earth was founded-compare Job 38:4 etc.

    "Kosmos" is used of the world-system: John 12:31 etc. "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the Prince of this world be cast out"- compare Matthew 4:8 and 1 John 5:19, R. V.

    "Kosmos" is used of the whole human race: Romans 3:19, etc.-"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

    "Kosmos" is used of humanity minus believers: John 15:18; Romans 3:6 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you." Believers do not "hate" Christ, so that "the world" here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ. "God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world." Here is another passage where "the world" cannot mean "you, me, and everybody," for believers will not be "judged" by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view.

    "Kosmos" is used of Gentiles in contrast from Jews: Romans 11:12 etc. "Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their (Israel's) fulness." Note how the first clause in italics is defined by the latter clause placed in italics. Here, again, "the world" cannot signify all humanity for it excludes Israel!

    "Kosmos" is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16, 17; 6:33; 12:47; 1 Corinthians 4:9; 2 Corinthians 5:19. We leave our readers to turn to these passages, asking them to note, carefully, exactly what is said and predicated of "the world" in each place.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page