"L" in TULIP

Discussion in 'Calvinism & The Doctrines of Grace' started by johnny_redeemed, May 5, 2004.

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  1. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    What is your favorite verse for showing that the "L" in TULIP is Biblical?
     
  2. Bladestunner316

    Bladestunner316 Puritan Board Doctor

    can it be chapters?

    John 15
    Romans 9

    blade
     
  3. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    John 17
    Romans 3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9
    Gal. 3,4
    Hebrews 2,10
     
  4. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
    Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

    Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

    1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.


    The term "elect" is excluding. Not everyone is elect, hence, the atonement is 'limited' to the elect alone.
     
  5. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Matthew 1:21, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save [b:46fea1f725]his people[/b:46fea1f725] from their sins."

    John 10:15, "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life [b:46fea1f725]for the sheep."[/b:46fea1f725]

    John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life [b:46fea1f725]for his friends."[/b:46fea1f725]

    Acts 20:28, "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all [b:46fea1f725]the flock[/b:46fea1f725], over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, [b:46fea1f725]which he hath purchased[/b:46fea1f725] with his own blood."

    Ephesians 5:25, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also [b:46fea1f725]loved the church, and gave himself for it;"[/b:46fea1f725]
     
  6. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    Paul, I have read many things you have said and I have come to this conclusion.....I like you! I think your picture has a bit to do with that!! :handshake:


    p.s. how did you get all those stars under your name?

    p.p.s.s. my favorite "L" verse is Matt 26:28, "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
     
  7. cupotea

    cupotea Puritan Board Junior

    [quote:7f3721efab][i:7f3721efab]Originally posted by johnny_redeemed[/i:7f3721efab]


    p.s. how did you get all those stars under your name?

    [/quote:7f3721efab]

    The more posts you make, the more stars you receive.
     
  8. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    You are not Paul, but thanks!!!!


    :scholar:



    this is for you

    @----/-----------
     
  9. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    Paul we also both are Calvinist's and members of a PCA church. I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship!!
    Did you go to college anywhere or are you self taught? It seems like you know a LOT from what I have read about you.


    :scholar:
     
  10. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:9fae7572ff][i:9fae7572ff]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:9fae7572ff]
    [quote:9fae7572ff][i:9fae7572ff]Originally posted by johnny_redeemed[/i:9fae7572ff]
    Paul we also both are Calvinist's and members of a PCA church. I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship!!
    Did you go to college anywhere or are you self taught? It seems like you know a LOT from what I have read about you.


    :scholar: [/quote:9fae7572ff]

    I was self taught up until about a year ago and then started going to Bahnsen Theological Seminary for apologetics.

    I became a Christian about 5 years ago and flet really behind, like I wasted my whole life, so I have been trying to "catch-up" so-to-speak. I thank you for the compliment but as you post more I am sure you will see that I have MANY errors

    -Paul

    [Edited on 5-6-2004 by Paul manata] [/quote:9fae7572ff]


    where is Bahnsen Teological Seminary and tell me what you think about it??
     
  11. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    i am thinking about, almost certian, i am going to go to Westminister Calif.

    You like John Frame?
     
  12. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    What do you think of WTS??
    what section is that post under?
     
  13. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:4cb686fa46][i:4cb686fa46]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:4cb686fa46]
    their infatuation with Kilne, and their law/gosple dichotomy[/quote:4cb686fa46]

    what do you mean by this? i am not sure what some of those words are? i am not that "smrt"? :scholar::book:

    [Edited on 5-6-2004 by johnny_redeemed]
     
  14. FrozenChosen

    FrozenChosen Puritan Board Freshman

    John 17

    Primarily because the fact that our holy Lord Jesus Christ prayed for us. Sometimes it moves me to tears.

    Watch out for those emotions!:rant:
     
  15. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:21de0cb3f1]Watch out for those emotions!:rant:[/quote:21de0cb3f1]

    are you serious about this? if so why? i get very emotional about my faith. i love Jesus. love is an emotion?

    :puzzled:
     
  16. SteelYankee

    SteelYankee Puritan Board Freshman

    What about the Sheep?

    In John 10, Jesus says He is the Good Shepherd and He lay down His life for the Sheep. Later in that same chapter, He tells some Jews that the reason they don't believe is BECAUSE they are not His sheep.

    Think about that! They are NOT sheep, yet Jesus lay down His life for the sheep. Therefore, Jesus did not lay down His life for these "goats."

    Does that necessarily follow?:detective:
     
  17. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    [quote:8f476817a6][i:8f476817a6]Originally posted by johnny_redeemed[/i:8f476817a6]
    [quote:8f476817a6]Watch out for those emotions!:rant:[/quote:8f476817a6]

    are you serious about this? if so why? i get very emotional about my faith. i love Jesus. love is an emotion?

    :puzzled: [/quote:8f476817a6]

    There is a difference between "emotions" and emotionalism.....
     
  18. sastark

    sastark Puritan Board Graduate

    My wife and I came across this little gem the other day:

    1 Samuel 2:25
    "'If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the LORD, who will intercede for him?' [b:b70eb3ffcc]Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, because the LORD desired to kill them.[/b:b70eb3ffcc]"

    Another verse to show that God really doesn't love everyone!
     
  19. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:ff58beb681]Another verse to show that God really doesn't love everyone![/quote:ff58beb681]

    i am not sure i agree with this. i think God loves everyone, in some sense. it is loving to create them, it is loving that all deserve death, but we all do not die right away. then rain falls on the just and the unjust. i could be wrong about this. i am not sure. tell me what you guys/gals think :think:
     
  20. sastark

    sastark Puritan Board Graduate

    [quote:5d1633ade7][i:5d1633ade7]Originally posted by johnny_redeemed[/i:5d1633ade7]

    i am not sure i agree with this. i think God loves everyone, in some sense. it is loving to create them, it is loving that all deserve death, but we all do not die right away. then rain falls on the just and the unjust. i could be wrong about this. i am not sure. tell me what you guys/gals think :think: [/quote:5d1633ade7]

    Well, I know God hated Esau.
     
  21. panicbird

    panicbird Puritan Board Freshman

    God does not love all people in the same way. "In the same way" is key. Certainly, the rain falls on the just and the unjust. However, God's electing love does not fall upon everyone. God's Fatherly, loving discipline is not experienced by all.
    Carson has a book on this: The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God. I have not read it, but have heard from reliable sources that it is excellent.

    Hope this helps.

    Lon
     
  22. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:7cd7cb3db3][i:7cd7cb3db3]Originally posted by sastark[/i:7cd7cb3db3]

    Well, I know God hated Esau. [/quote:7cd7cb3db3]


    the Greek word in Romans 9:13 for hate "miseo" (mis-eh'-o) it means: to detest (especially to persecute); by extension, to love less. this word, as you can see, can mean loveless. i think God can, and does, have different types of love. i.e. a salvific love, a general love... i hate to use it but John 3:16 says God loved the world, and Jesus loved the rich young ruler how did not believe. some food for thought.
     
  23. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Redeemed,
    Actually the passage is from the old testament. Please do a thorough study on the Hebrew word; compare all the passages, you will in fact find that the word means just that,'hatred'.
     
  24. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    Scott, i took a look at the Old Testament passage in the Hebrew. you are right it means to hate. please explain John 3:16 to me then. thank.
     
  25. FrozenChosen

    FrozenChosen Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:3c24627ca7][i:3c24627ca7]Originally posted by johnny_redeemed[/i:3c24627ca7]
    [quote:3c24627ca7]Watch out for those emotions!:rant:[/quote:3c24627ca7]

    are you serious about this? if so why? i get very emotional about my faith. i love Jesus. love is an emotion?

    :puzzled: [/quote:3c24627ca7]

    Haha, no brother, I'm definitely just joking. As my forum name may suggesting, I enjoy the caricatures that people make of us. They're funny to me, because they're caricatures and not correct at all. The only caricatures I really get irritated about are caricatures of Calvinism, and that happens a lot.

    Mr. Bushey hit the nail on the head.:thumbup: A lof of people on the outside of Reformed circles see our lack of emotional[i:3c24627ca7]ism[/i:3c24627ca7] as a lack of emotion. As most of us know, that is not the case.

    I apologize for the confusion.
     
  26. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:c0de112eab]I apologize for the confusion.[/quote:c0de112eab]


    this is another characterization of us Calvinists, many say we only want to "fight" or "argue" or "debate". but you just showed that to be wrong. you say sorry (if that is what you meant by apologize). that is cool :thumbup:
     
  27. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:76e7dd8aea]For God SO LOVED the world that he sent His Son for those who are believing (i.e. the elect). [/quote:76e7dd8aea]

    i agree with everything you said. :thumbup: i am a Calvinist. i know that only the elect will believe and thus be saved. but look at the way you "reworded" (and rightly so given the context) John 3:16, you still said loved the WORLD? that is the part that is troubling to me. remember this got started when a guy (sorry i forgot who) said that God does not love some people.
     
  28. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    i am very leary about giving my name out? i would not mind emailing it to you. i will read that artical you sent and then comment on it. Cool thats.


    :banana::banana::banana::banana:


    ~You can't run mr bananna out to the default. It stretches the page.

    [Edited on 5-6-2004 by Scott Bushey]

    [Edited on 5-6-2004 by johnny_redeemed]
     
  29. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    why? :think:
     
  30. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Because it's board policy.

    SPB
     
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