Ken Ham's "Ark Encounter"

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2ndViolinist

2ndViolinist

Puritan Board Freshman
I'd enjoy seeing it if I was in the area, if only to see the sheer size of the thing.
 
I have mixed feelings regarding the "ark encounter." On one hand, I think it is a good thing for people to see the sheer size of the ark (it was built according to the specs in Genesis) because this helps people to see that it was indeed possible for all of the animals to fit on board. On the other hand, all the commercialism associated with it bothers me. Tickets cost $40 and the attraction includes restaurants and a gift shop.
 
100 million dollars, high ticket prices, and the commercial aspect of it soured me. Gather millions of donations (free money), then build an Ark with a gift shop, then customers buy your goods = profit (the profits do not go back to the donors, but to Ham's ministry).

With 100 million dollars, you could send about 1,000 talented homeschoolers on scholarships to the best universities and train the next generation of Creation Scientists and geologists to combat Darwinian theory. But most ministries do not engage in such selfless acts but chose, instead, to prioritize those projects which help to boost their own banner or name.

(I've encountered this as a missionary as well...large churches wanting to come and "help" us overseas, but every aspect of the proposed trip would have been a way to enhance their own ministries back home and I am only the tool to make their own name great. One proposed emailer even mentioned bringing a banner to hang above the church building with their church's name while they did some "ministry" under it...better for photo ops....I turned him down)

I love Ken Ham and his ministry...but I've always hated this project.

On the other hand, I think it'd be pretty cool to see and I am glad for Ham's uncompromising position on a Young Earth.
 
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The argument in favor of it is, "If secularists can have secular museums of natural history, why can't Christians have an explicitly Christian museum of natural or supernatural history?"

I think they are certainly free to make such and others can freely choose to attend or not. I think it is kind of a neat idea to have a replica of the Ark. However, I also think the money may have been better spent on other causes. And insofar the museum is seen as an "evangelistic" tool of a particular "ministry," it seems to me to compete with the ordinances and ministry God has given in part to perform those evangelistic purposes.
 
DEM at Ark.jpg Ark 1.jpg
I saw it today with two of my grandkids. It was GREAT! The rather ingenious answers to questions of waste removal, air circulation, and provision of fresh water were some of the best things I had ever seen.

Complaints by Bill Nye, those who complain about the cost, etc. strike me as beside the point. In an age when even seminaries cast doubt on the veracity of biblical narratives, demonstrating the feasibility of this crux of scepticism has value on so many levels.

My grandkids and I went to see the Creation Museum and the Ark Encounter (Jeanette and I have been to the Creation Museum several times with various family members). Having attended a seminary (supposedly one of the original "flagships" of the post WWII "evangelical" movement) where I was taught that the Pentateuch was "Mosaic" only in that it was a mosaic of bits and pieces cobbled together in the 8th or 7th century, that Daniel was a pious fiction "vaticinium ex eventu" written hundreds of years after the purported date of composition, that Jonah was a symbolic parable, that Genesis 1-11 is almost completely ahistorical, etc., gives me a great deal of satisfaction in the labors of Ken Ham. Perfect? No more than you or I. But, in an age of enormous ridicule of all things Christian, especially those that take the Bible seriously, Mr. Ham stands tall. May his tribe increase!!!
 
As to ticket prices, when you consider the infrastructure necessary to keep this kind of thing open, the ticket prices seem reasonable to me. In my last full time position, I blew through half the amount of money Ham used on the ark project to do something on a very much smaller scale. Going through it today, there were employees all over the place. Assuredly they were all being paid, none of them were volunteers. The cost of labor adds ENORMOUSLY to just about anything today. Look at the prices of books at Eerdmans, Baker, or IVP. Or, consider the cost of seeing a movie.
 
With 100 million dollars, you could send about 1,000 talented homeschoolers on scholarships to the best universities and train the next generation of Creation Scientists and geologists to combat Darwinian theory.
Click to expand...

On the flipside, think of how many people, believers and unbelievers, will go through the ark exhibit and may be inspired to not only do what you suggest, but present God's truth to their social circles well beyond the academic realm.

I don't get the criticism of Ham and the idea that every endeavor of God must somehow be routed through a local church or denomination. Ken Ham's ministry isn't competing with your local church. If you think it is, you have one weird local church ;)
 
TheInquirer said:
With 100 million dollars, you could send about 1,000 talented homeschoolers on scholarships to the best universities and train the next generation of Creation Scientists and geologists to combat Darwinian theory.
Click to expand...

On the flipside, think of how many people, believers and unbelievers, will go through the ark exhibit and may be inspired to not only do what you suggest, but present God's truth to their social circles well beyond the academic realm.

I don't get the criticism of Ham and the idea that every endeavor of God must somehow be routed through a local church or denomination. Ken Ham's ministry isn't competing with your local church. If you think it is, you have one weird local church ;)
Click to expand...

Here is one area they compete. ;)


Standard Park Hours

After August 15, 2016
Monday–Friday: 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.

Saturday: 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.

Sunday: Noon to 6:00 p.m.
 
DMcFadden said:
As to ticket prices, when you consider the infrastructure necessary to keep this kind of thing open, the ticket prices seem reasonable to me.
Click to expand...

Ditto. $40 does not seem exorbitant at all to keep a structure that size climate controlled, maintain the exhibits, clean up the messes, pay the employees etc. I probably would have been afraid to even attempt something like this because of the risk it might never be self-supporting or get built at all, and even now I wouldn't be surprised if ticket prices are subsidized by donors.
 
earl40 said:
Here is one area they compete.


Standard Park Hours

After August 15, 2016
Monday–Friday: 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.

Saturday: 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.

Sunday: Noon to 6:00 p.m.
Click to expand...

I am sure it won't be (or at least I hope it won't be) the intent, but I wonder how long it will be before individuals and/or churches will skip corporate worship on the Lord's Day in order to attend the museum as an alternative to the worship service.

This made me think of the baseball stadiums (such as in Cincy, not too far from the Creation Museum) that have a "Christian Day" in which they will have a baseball game followed by a Christian music concert, all on the Lord's Day. I know first hand of individuals who have skipped worship to attend.
 
Marrow Man said:
earl40 said:
Here is one area they compete.


Standard Park Hours

After August 15, 2016
Monday–Friday: 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.

Saturday: 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.

Sunday: Noon to 6:00 p.m.
Click to expand...

I am sure it won't be (or at least I hope it won't be) the intent, but I wonder how long it will be before individuals and/or churches will skip corporate worship on the Lord's Day in order to attend the museum as an alternative to the worship service.

This made me think of the baseball stadiums (such as in Cincy, not too far from the Creation Museum) that have a "Christian Day" in which they will have a baseball game followed by a Christian music concert, all on the Lord's Day. I know first hand of individuals who have skipped worship to attend.
Click to expand...


Not knowing much about Ken Hamm what church does he belong to?
 
In addition to the Ark Encounter and the Creation Museum, Ken Ham should be commended for his work as editor of Answers in Genesis. While I do not endorse everything they put out (in fact, there are some cases of scientific inaccuracy), the website and magazine are excellent resources. Specifically, they show that the unbelieving scientist's evolution-based explanation for the origins of the world is not an undisputed fact, as the world likes to portray.

Concerning the Ark Encounter, it is very discouraging to hear that they are open on Sundays. If the goal is evangelism, I believe it would be an excellent witness to close shop on Sundays.
 
When I visited the Creation Museum a couple of years ago I left a comment card and sent an e-mail concerning the Sabbath Day opening. Never heard back (other than a courtesy response).
 
1. Ken Ham is a presuppositional apologist, but not a confessional Presbyterian. One may critique him for not holding to the specifics of one's own doctrine (e.g., eschatological, baptismal, polity views, etc.). But, realize that the two largest Reformed groups with faithful Sabbath observance in America (OP = 30,000; PCA - 370,000) do not even have unanimity on this point. Those of you who do not patronize restaurants, markets, gas stations, libraries, and sporting events on Sunday have a point to make.

2. I do not claim to agree with Ham on any range of topics. He is, however, fearless in confronting the culture with the claims of Christ and the authority of Scripture. That is, despite significant disagreements, enough to get me on his cheerleading crew.

3. On the point of spending so much on the ark, which he did for outreach reasons, consider how expensive everything is these days:


Beer: $96 billion—enough to make 199,937,239 barrels!
(Brewers Association)

Pretzels: $550 million
(Reuters)

St. Patrick’s Day: $4.14 billion
(National Retail Federation)

Over-the-Counter Teeth Whiteners: $1.4 billion
(MSNBC)

Pet Halloween Costumes: $310 million (The pet industry hauls in a total $50.96 billion!)
(National Retail Federation/American Pet Product Association)

Easter: $16.8 billion
(National Retail Association)

Romance Novels: $10 billion
(Romance Writers of America)

Engagement and Wedding Rings: $11 billion
(Knot Market Intelligence)

Valentine’s Day Flowers: $1.7 billion
(National Retail Federation)

Chocolate: $16 billion dollars (we eat 2.8 billion pounds of it!)
(IBIS)

Perfume: $4.2 billion
(Research and Markets)

Gambling: $34.6 billion
(American Gaming Association)
Click to expand...

I would argue that 1/3 of the annual cost of pet costumes for Halloween is not too much to pay for the Ark Encounter!
 
Think of how many jobs building that thing created. To say that money could have been spent better elsewhere is to ignore the fact that it probably helped to put food in many family's mouths.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
And a reminder (not that anyone around here probably needs it) - Bill Nye is not a scientist. He's a mechanical engineer (BS, Cornell University, 1977). But I'm sure he's quite happy to let people *think* he's a scientist.
 
bookslover said:
And a reminder (not that anyone around here probably needs it) - Bill Nye is not a scientist. He's a mechanical engineer (BS, Cornell University, 1977). But I'm sure he's quite happy to let people *think* he's a scientist.
Click to expand...

I am aware of that and sometimes I think that Christians repeatedly pointing it out sounds petty (not aiming at you personally, just in general): how does one qualify to be an "official" scientist? And if he were, would we treat him with any more or less respect? Even if he was a "genuine" scientist, that doesn't necessarily make what he says valuable, but pointing to his credentials as a reason why someone should dismiss him, despite him saying the same things a scientist would, and despite his personal knowledge, research, and career, strikes me as demeaning.

We as Christians read and listen to a lot of "Creation Scientists" who I'm sure many from the other side would claim "aren't real scientists, they're just physics majors, or school teachers." Does that mean they can never contribute anything either?

This just seems to me to be an example of the genetic fallacy, and I wish we'd stop resorting to pointing out Nye's credentials as a means of discrediting him. There are plenty of other, better ways to engage with him and his beliefs.
 
Miss Marple said:
Capitalism is a blessing. I'd also love to see a million more Christian-oriented businesses.
Click to expand...

In the world I live in I see millions of Christians who are oriented toward Jesus who do business. I bring this up to only point out is Hamm's business a business or a proper ministry. I would go for it is a simply a business that hopes to turn a profit that points to Jesus, like the housewife who points to Jesus by her work which work has a hope that is profitable.
 
Logan said:
bookslover said:
And a reminder (not that anyone around here probably needs it) - Bill Nye is not a scientist. He's a mechanical engineer (BS, Cornell University, 1977). But I'm sure he's quite happy to let people *think* he's a scientist.
Click to expand...

I am aware of that and sometimes I think that Christians repeatedly pointing it out sounds petty (not aiming at you personally, just in general): how does one qualify to be an "official" scientist? And if he were, would we treat him with any more or less respect? Even if he was a "genuine" scientist, that doesn't necessarily make what he says valuable, but pointing to his credentials as a reason why someone should dismiss him, despite him saying the same things a scientist would, and despite his personal knowledge, research, and career, strikes me as demeaning.

We as Christians read and listen to a lot of "Creation Scientists" who I'm sure many from the other side would claim "aren't real scientists, they're just physics majors, or school teachers." Does that mean they can never contribute anything either?

This just seems to me to be an example of the genetic fallacy, and I wish we'd stop resorting to pointing out Nye's credentials as a means of discrediting him. There are plenty of other, better ways to engage with him and his beliefs.
Click to expand...

I think you certainly make a good point regarding the genetic fallacy, but it does seem that Nye presents himself as an expert, and he is not an expert by any objective measure. The same may certainly apply to some creation scientist, including Ham himself, but most of the creation scientists that the secular world decries as not really being experts do indeed have legitimate PhDs, and are therefore legitimate experts, and so I do think there is a difference.
 
DMcFadden said:
View attachment 4545 View attachment 4546
I saw it today with two of my grandkids. It was GREAT! The rather ingenious answers to questions of waste removal, air circulation, and provision of fresh water were some of the best things I had ever seen.

Complaints by Bill Nye, those who complain about the cost, etc. strike me as beside the point. In an age when even seminaries cast doubt on the veracity of biblical narratives, demonstrating the feasibility of this crux of scepticism has value on so many levels.

My grandkids and I went to see the Creation Museum and the Ark Encounter (Jeanette and I have been to the Creation Museum several times with various family members). Having attended a seminary (supposedly one of the original "flagships" of the post WWII "evangelical" movement) where I was taught that the Pentateuch was "Mosaic" only in that it was a mosaic of bits and pieces cobbled together in the 8th or 7th century, that Daniel was a pious fiction "vaticinium ex eventu" written hundreds of years after the purported date of composition, that Jonah was a symbolic parable, that Genesis 1-11 is almost completely ahistorical, etc., gives me a great deal of satisfaction in the labors of Ken Ham. Perfect? No more than you or I. But, in an age of enormous ridicule of all things Christian, especially those that take the Bible seriously, Mr. Ham stands tall. May his tribe increase!!!
Click to expand...
Where's the pitch? Oh, it doesn't need it, there's not going to be another Flood.

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