Keith Green(again)

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ServantofGod

Puritan Board Junior
These songs have comforted me through many dark times, and recently I've needed to put them on repeat again:

[video=youtube;LWiAwHy0NQU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWiAwHy0NQU&feature=PlayList&p=5A7568084C40E6B8&index=3[/video]

[video=youtube;h89-3_kIRDA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h89-3_kIRDA&feature=PlayList&p=5A7568084C40E6B8&index=0[/video]

[video=youtube;Jd9MaBu3gAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd9MaBu3gAg&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;4FCEWJkBIZo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FCEWJkBIZo&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;7OEqavkJGCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OEqavkJGCE&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;Wil0PBylyW0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wil0PBylyW0&feature=related[/video]
 
Knowing the truth sets a person free. Did Keith Green "sing" the truth? The Promise Song announces all the promises of the covenant of works. It teaches, Do this, and live. The covenant of grace teaches, Live, and do this. One example should serve to show the perversion of the gospel in this music. He states that if we serve the Lord we shall be made stones in God's house and kings and priests to God. The Scripture explicitly teaches the opposite, that we are made living stones in God's house and kings and priests in order to serve. His songs are a blend of pathological and perfectionist Christianity. Pathological Christianity refers to the idea that Jesus meets some existential need and can be generally seen in the emphasis on crisis conversion. Perfectionist Christianity refers to the imposition of a standard of perfection in order to enjoy some higher plane of Christian living. Whatever peace Keith Green's music brings to the soul, it is not the peace of the gospel, which clearly declares, Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
He sang the truth in the video I posted. :D

The additions serve to reorientate the psalm away from its message of representative dominion and inculcates sentimental notions of love which exalt man rather than God.
 
Knowing the truth sets a person free. Did Keith Green "sing" the truth? The Promise Song announces all the promises of the covenant of works. It teaches, Do this, and live. The covenant of grace teaches, Live, and do this. One example should serve to show the perversion of the gospel in this music. He states that if we serve the Lord we shall be made stones in God's house and kings and priests to God. The Scripture explicitly teaches the opposite, that we are made living stones in God's house and kings and priests in order to serve. His songs are a blend of pathological and perfectionist Christianity. Pathological Christianity refers to the idea that Jesus meets some existential need and can be generally seen in the emphasis on crisis conversion. Perfectionist Christianity refers to the imposition of a standard of perfection in order to enjoy some higher plane of Christian living. Whatever peace Keith Green's music brings to the soul, it is not the peace of the gospel, which clearly declares, Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

You make a good point, Matthew. However, near the end of his life, Keith Green was beginning to learn about what God's grace truly meant, and was startign to move away from a Perfectionist mindset. I think that the songs posted here were from pre-Grace Keith before he began to get an understanding of what God's grace is really about, so naturally they would come from a Perfectionist Christianity mindset.
 
You make a good point, Matthew. However, near the end of his life, Keith Green was beginning to learn about what God's grace truly meant, and was startign to move away from a Perfectionist mindset. I think that the songs posted here were from pre-Grace Keith before he began to get an understanding of what God's grace is really about, so naturally they would come from a Perfectionist Christianity mindset.

Thankyou for filling me in on some of the history. My critique only pertains to the songs as presented. Are there any examples of post-grace songs?
 
The first one kind of has a Jimmy Buffet feel to it? Not that there is anything wrong with that.
 
You make a good point, Matthew. However, near the end of his life, Keith Green was beginning to learn about what God's grace truly meant, and was startign to move away from a Perfectionist mindset. I think that the songs posted here were from pre-Grace Keith before he began to get an understanding of what God's grace is really about, so naturally they would come from a Perfectionist Christianity mindset.

Thankyou for filling me in on some of the history. My critique only pertains to the songs as presented. Are there any examples of post-grace songs?

I don't know. The last album of original material was 'Songs for the Shepherd,' which originally was going to be a rock-based evangelical album, but became a worship album with many songs based on scripture. One great song I can think of from that album was 'There is a Redeemer.' Sadly, Keith died in a plane crash not long after that album was released.

Just a question: have you ever read Keith Green's biography No Compromise? I just re-read your mention of Pathological Christianity, and I think that his biography (written by his widow Melody Green, who I think has since re-married) hits on that issue a little. Both he and Melody came to the LORD during the 1970's, and worked with a lot of folks that did come out of backgrounds of drug abuse, false religion, and other issues that could explain the references to Pathological Christianity. I highly recommend it if you get a chance.
 
Just a question: have you ever read Keith Green's biography No Compromise? I just re-read your mention of Pathological Christianity, and I think that his biography (written by his widow Melody Green, who I think has since re-married) hits on that issue a little. Both he and Melody came to the LORD during the 1970's, and worked with a lot of folks that did come out of backgrounds of drug abuse, false religion, and other issues that could explain the references to Pathological Christianity. I highly recommend it if you get a chance.

I haven't been inclined to read the biography, thinking he was just a part of the folk Christianity scene, which I generally dislike for its role in introducing sentimentalism into contemporary religious expression. Is there information in it which speaks of a change of views in his latter days? if so, it would be interesting to read to see what brought about these changes.
 
You make a good point, Matthew. However, near the end of his life, Keith Green was beginning to learn about what God's grace truly meant, and was startign to move away from a Perfectionist mindset. I think that the songs posted here were from pre-Grace Keith before he began to get an understanding of what God's grace is really about, so naturally they would come from a Perfectionist Christianity mindset.

Thankyou for filling me in on some of the history. My critique only pertains to the songs as presented. Are there any examples of post-grace songs?

[video=youtube;-MjE2yXJqvs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MjE2yXJqvs[/video]
 
Sadly, in my opinion Keith Green had a very mixed bag of theology (much like many modern Evangelicals!).

Of the OP songs listed, I don't think Your Love Broke Through and the Easter Song are as problematic as the Promise Song. My favorite song of his is the Prodigal Song (i really enjoy the music).
 
I love Keith Green...he rocks! Yeah, his doctrine wasn't spot on, but his love for God was! We'll see him in eternity and right now his doctrine is more spot on than ours! ;)
 
You make a good point, Matthew. However, near the end of his life, Keith Green was beginning to learn about what God's grace truly meant, and was startign to move away from a Perfectionist mindset. I think that the songs posted here were from pre-Grace Keith before he began to get an understanding of what God's grace is really about, so naturally they would come from a Perfectionist Christianity mindset.

Thankyou for filling me in on some of the history. My critique only pertains to the songs as presented. Are there any examples of post-grace songs?

[video=youtube;-MjE2yXJqvs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MjE2yXJqvs[/video]

I completely forgot about this one, and it's one of my favorites! Thanks, Kevin!

I haven't been inclined to read the biography, thinking he was just a part of the folk Christianity scene, which I generally dislike for its role in introducing sentimentalism into contemporary religious expression. Is there information in it which speaks of a change of views in his latter days? if so, it would be interesting to read to see what brought about these changes.

It does. It's been a few years since I read it, but if I recall the change stemmed from a minister he was working with. Keith mentioned to him that he was tired of 'working' so hard, and this minister began to teach Keith what grace is about. Melody even mentioned in the biography that at one point, Keith was more peaceful once he began to understand grace.
 
I was just reading up on him in Wiki.
I knew he died a sudden tragic death but I didn't realize it was when he was only 28 years old. It also mentions influences of Vineyard, Ravenhill, and Finney. :( And especially without any Christian upbringing and being converted when he was only ? 22, it is no wonder his theology was all over the map.
 
I was just reading up on him in Wiki.
I knew he died a sudden tragic death but I didn't realize it was when he was only 28 years old. It also mentions influences of Vineyard, Ravenhill, and Finney. :( And especially without any Christian upbringing and being converted when he was only ? 22, it is no wonder his theology was all over the map.

Exactly. Again, it was shortly before his death that he started to understand what Grace really means.
 
Just a question: have you ever read Keith Green's biography No Compromise? I just re-read your mention of Pathological Christianity, and I think that his biography (written by his widow Melody Green, who I think has since re-married) hits on that issue a little. Both he and Melody came to the LORD during the 1970's, and worked with a lot of folks that did come out of backgrounds of drug abuse, false religion, and other issues that could explain the references to Pathological Christianity. I highly recommend it if you get a chance.

I haven't been inclined to read the biography, thinking he was just a part of the folk Christianity scene, which I generally dislike for its role in introducing sentimentalism into contemporary religious expression. Is there information in it which speaks of a change of views in his latter days? if so, it would be interesting to read to see what brought about these changes.


Matthew - I agree with your assessment of his music, but I boldened this part because I want to challenge you on your timeline. Do you really think that sentimentality didn't come into contemporary religious expression until the "Christian folk" scene emerged? I think that overt sentimentality can easily be traced to at least the 2nd Great Awakening.

The hymn that in my mind exemplifies sentimental Christianity is "In the Garden" and it was written in 1912 I believe... which would have been before any of the parents of the Christian folk artists were even a twinkle in their daddy's eye...
 
Ben, yes, you are certainly correct. I suppose the folk movement is a little closer to home so a little easier to pinpoint.
 
Knowing the truth sets a person free. Did Keith Green "sing" the truth? The Promise Song announces all the promises of the covenant of works. It teaches, Do this, and live. The covenant of grace teaches, Live, and do this. One example should serve to show the perversion of the gospel in this music. He states that if we serve the Lord we shall be made stones in God's house and kings and priests to God. The Scripture explicitly teaches the opposite, that we are made living stones in God's house and kings and priests in order to serve. His songs are a blend of pathological and perfectionist Christianity. Pathological Christianity refers to the idea that Jesus meets some existential need and can be generally seen in the emphasis on crisis conversion. Perfectionist Christianity refers to the imposition of a standard of perfection in order to enjoy some higher plane of Christian living. Whatever peace Keith Green's music brings to the soul, it is not the peace of the gospel, which clearly declares, Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

You make a good point, Matthew. However, near the end of his life, Keith Green was beginning to learn about what God's grace truly meant, and was startign to move away from a Perfectionist mindset. I think that the songs posted here were from pre-Grace Keith before he began to get an understanding of what God's grace is really about, so naturally they would come from a Perfectionist Christianity mindset.
Henry makes a good point. I live not too far from where Green's ministry and recording was done, it is my understanding as well the Green was reading some "deeper" things towards the end and moving towards a more orthodox theology. In fairness Mr. Green became a Christian fairly late in his life, and was still "young" in the faith on his death. I (like many here) continue to grow and conform my theology to Scripture as I get older. Sadly Keith never had this chance, it does seem however his theology was getting MUCH better near the end. Grace and Peace.:2cents:
 
I just noticed this thread. I recently put up two songs and an interview on my FB. I read KG's bio and loved his songs while I was a pentecostal. I have recently been listening to him again and noticing many signs that he was a true Christian. His songs Romans VII, I Want to Be More Like Jesus, There is a Redeemer, and many more attest that he believed in Grace and regeneration. He struggled with sin mightily and depended on Christ for salvation. I think he was one of those inconsistent arminians. I also put up an interview, I will put it up here. The interview and the comments at the end of the live song I will put up are very telling. He had a very firm conversion experience and I think he may have been influenced by Leonard Ravenhill who from my small knowledge of him seemed to be more reformed than not. I very much hope to see Keith Green in glory.

[video=youtube;Jd9MaBu3gAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd9MaBu3gAg&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;q5_rtl8K8i8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5_rtl8K8i8[/video]
 
So the guy was not Reformed, even so, his lyrics describe what we see out of our eyes even as a Calvinist. For instance, when we go evangelizing it looks as if we freely chose to go and do so, but we know that it was God who determined for us to do so. I think we all are Arminians in what we physically see while we are Calvinists in what we mentally/spiritually see.

His music is definately heart felt and incouraging ;)
 
[video=youtube;em5gL0Rw4Aw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em5gL0Rw4Aw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em5gL0Rw4Aw[/video]

I can't see any reason to speculate over the man's eternal condition with God - he professed faith in Jesus Christ and called others to do the same. If God had not chosen to take him to Glory so early in life I wonder (as others have already mentioned) how he might have matured in his understanding of the doctrines of grace (not to mention the purity of worship ;)).

Act 18:24 Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus.
Act 18:25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John.
Act 18:26 So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

Matt
 
I can't see any reason to speculate over the man's eternal condition with God - he professed faith in Jesus Christ and called others to do the same. If God had not chosen to take him to Glory so early in life I wonder (as others have already mentioned) how he might have matured in his understanding of the doctrines of grace (not to mention the purity of worship ;)).

I don't think anyone's speculating over his eternal condition. I think some people are simply stating that some of his songs are unhelpful. There's certainly an element of works-righteousness in some of his songs that is unbiblical. Asleep in the Light is actually another song where i think he's exhorting with the law and not the gospel.
 
This thread evinces what power inspirational music can have over men's souls and the ease with which error can be propagated through an artistic medium. If the message of Keith Green was taught in the pulpit I doubt many here would attend upon or remain very long listening to such unbiblical teachings.
 
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This thread evinces what power inspirational music can have over men's souls and the ease with which error can be propagated through an artistic medium. If the message of Keith Green was taught in the pulpit I doubt many here would attend upon or remain very long listening to such unbiblical teachings.

Rev. Winzer, I would highly suggest you read the biography on him. As he grew older, his understanding of Scripture did also. Men who knew him personally(Steve Camp) saw him moving towards the doctrines of grace, were it ever so slow. I cannot speak for others, but the Lord has used his life story and his music to lead me closer to Him as no other has done. I do not know why. Why hasn't it been R.C. Sproul, or Charles Spurgeon, or John Calvin? Maybe I'm too stupid to learn from them. All I know is that his life was a powerful instrument in spreading the Gospel of Christ, and brought me to conviction many times. Many of his sermons, no, I would not sit under. Yet, I will be so bold as to say just as many other sermons of his I would. His desire to see God glorified, his love for our Lord and for lost souls, his zeal to be holy, as the Lord commanded us, has been unmatched by any reformed brother I know, with few exceptions. His ministry, I believe, should not be discounted because of doctrinal error. I personally love the old sermons of John MacAurthur, even though he was in error on some key points of reformed theology(and maybe still is). Maybe I err by defending him. Well, then I do. You're observations are heeded and respected. But it is not "inspirational music" that draws me towards his ministry, but his love and zeal for Christ, and example of godly living.


P.S. You're love for the truth and zeal for purity of doctrine is much appreciated.


Wow, that wasn't sappy at all!
 
Rev. Winzer, I would highly suggest you read the biography on him.

I don't need to read the biography of him. His songs tell me what he taught. If he changed by the grace of God later in life, the listener should be even more wary of being moved by his earlier perversion of the gospel, since it would mean even he himself was delivered from it.
 
Keith was a great musician. It should also be remembered that he was a musician first, and not a theologian.

That being said, I have always enjoyed his "There Is a Redeemer", as well as a few other tunes. The man evinced a spark of life and love for God that not a few of his brothers and sisters could stand to learn from, even while they might want to go elsewhere for learning theology.

-----Added 3/26/2009 at 07:44:00 EST-----

I don't need to read the biography of him.

And that statement right there pinpoints the pride that brought your contentions into this thread in the first place. If you want to critique a man to his fans, and yet refuse to read the material being recommended to you that you might get a better understanding of his thought and life, what sort of credibility do you think that you are going to hold with them?

I mean, come on, you couldn't get away with pulling something like that in seminary. "Hey prof, I don't need to actually read Tillich to write this paper in critique of his work. I just pulled a few quotes off of some website. That should be good enough to get the full picture, right?"
 
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