Phil D.
Puritan Board Junior
No disrespect, brother, but with that you have seriously undermined your case.
Kanye's Movie "Jesus is King"
- Thread starter My Pilgrim Way
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No disrespect, brother, but with that you have seriously undermined your case.
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
Well how do you explain the line drawn around the building and it's particular shape? It is not drawn in a circle. It is drawn to place the circular building in a particular spot within the area. And it looks like an eye.
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
How so?
Tom Hart
Puritan Board Senior
Well, now you've put it that way...
(Seriously, if this Turrell fellow was intending to design this thing to look like the Eye of Horus... Well, maybe it's one of those things that look better on paper.)
Phil D.
Puritan Board Junior
Because it's the M.O. of conspiracy theorists. Take a subjective image and claim there is an indisputable connection with... [whatever their pet theory is].
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
I have to wonder at Christians who cry "conspiracy theory". Read your Bible. Are you telling me there aren't conspiracies in the world against the church, against truth, against righteousness? Christians should be a little more concerned with Satan who is a prowling lion looking for whom he may devor and a little less concerned with not being labeled as one of those "kooks". Crying conspiracy theorist is the same thing as crying nazi or racist: it means nothing, only intended to shut down debate. This is doubly ironic the day after it was revealed that ABC news suppressed a sex trafficking story about Epstein despite having ample evidence. Just the latest "conspiracy theory".
"The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed." Psalm 2:2
Tom Hart
Puritan Board Senior
Don't be ridiculous.
My Pilgrim Way
Puritan Board Freshman
I have interacted, and I've also stated that someone I know who was truly saved from the occult recognizes what most are failing to see. How do you explain that the world and Hollywood specifically are largely "okay" with his gospel and services? So far, he has only elevated himself and made merchandise of Christ. Surely, he has read "Ye, cannot serve God and mammon" or "He must increase, but I must decrease". The true gospel is foolishness and those who love darkness rather than the true light reject it.
It is also clear that discernment is sorely lacking in our day. I am no conspiracy theorist, but things are happening at an alarming rate in our world and ramping up. Satan has made war with the saints from the beginning.
I know that I may not be on the theological level of most here, but does that mean I have nothing meaningful to contribute? Guess not from the majority of responses.
Obviously, this is not the place for me especially when brothers in Christ want to take me to task for such pitiful things like what word I use (ie rudimentary) or a synonym for a word they used.
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Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
Alexander does have a point about conspiracy theories in general, even if you do not think that what he is saying is relevant to this specific issue. Too often they are dismissed out of hand.
That being said, even as a devout watcher of Alex Jones I am not presently convinced by the thesis being set forth in this thread.
My Pilgrim Way
Puritan Board Freshman
Jake, it isn't my intention to have endless debate. I was asked to explain myself over and over which I did.
Do you or anyone else have debates about political figures or others you don't know? I cannot believe the hypocrisy here where many things are debated, and the one thing in this world that actually IS important (true saving faith) is off limits just because "you don't know him".
I care deeply about my own spiritual life and do examine it according to scripture. I do not elevate myself because of the finished work of Christ for me. I know who and what I was before, and the Lord continually shows me my sin.
We should be thinking about the things going on in the world around us. How are you to counsel others you know or your own children (if you have any)? Sticking our heads in the sand is not the answer. This issue goes beyond Kanye.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
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alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
What do you mean by this? Answer what I said or don't say anything. I have given Scripture which describes conspiracy against the truth and you come back with this feeble response. You will clearly turn a blind eye to anything which might suggest your new pet "convert" isn't all he's cracked up to be.
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
Wilfully refusing to see because they are more interested in the credibility that comes from having a celebrity claim to be a Christian than maintaining Biblical standards in examining such claims.
It is clearly a blessing to you that you are "not on the theological level of most here" if the sort of equivocation and puerile "argument" which has been on display when discussing this topic is the mark of "theological learning". It is clear that when the rubber hits the road many people are unwilling to submit to Biblical teaching, more concerned with justifyting their own notions and their own practices than reducing such to the Bible.
Please do not allow such people to make you think your understanding of Scripture is deficient. Your discernment on this issue has been exemplary for you have allowed the Bible and nothing else to influence your thinking.
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
Excellently put.
So ironic that in another thread Doug Wilson (a heretic) is being slammed across the board but we daren't say anything against Kanye West. I suppose some people would rather have Kanye preach to them than Doug Wilson. I would prefer neither.
My Pilgrim Way
Puritan Board Freshman
Thank you. I am not swayed from my own understanding because of the responses here. I am greatly saddened, however.
Since I am caring for my husband full-time in very difficult circumstances, I don't have time to waste here. Thankfully, there is no need for anyone to tell me to "go home".
Kayne West doesn't belong to any Church? Does he attend any Church? Who is his Pastor? Who does he have to help teach him the scriptures? Does he have an influence in his life?
I think the above questions should be considered here. I also wish that the language would be a bit more softer toward each other. As a person who came out of an occultic background I can attest that the sensitivity and discernment of such a person is heightened more so than someone who has not been influenced by such. It is kind of like someone who comes out of a non Christian Cult. They tend to be more sensitive to the language of the Cult they came out of. They understand the phraseology and its influence. It is more recognized by the ex-cult member than it is by the person who has not been influenced by the cult.
MODERATOR HAT ON...
Please slow down on the harsh criticisms. Just agree to disagree please and say you see something if you do and say you don't if you don't.
Thanks.
I think the above questions should be considered here. I also wish that the language would be a bit more softer toward each other. As a person who came out of an occultic background I can attest that the sensitivity and discernment of such a person is heightened more so than someone who has not been influenced by such. It is kind of like someone who comes out of a non Christian Cult. They tend to be more sensitive to the language of the Cult they came out of. They understand the phraseology and its influence. It is more recognized by the ex-cult member than it is by the person who has not been influenced by the cult.
MODERATOR HAT ON...
Please slow down on the harsh criticisms. Just agree to disagree please and say you see something if you do and say you don't if you don't.
Thanks.
RPEphesian
Puritan Board Junior
We've got two or three threads on this, countless posts, and it is just turning into meaningless repetition of the same points over and over. There is no longer any edification. The discussion has reached its limit.
I do not ask you to "go home." I do not think your concerns are unwarranted. If Kanye continues in this way, then that will certainly answer the question of his conversion. You and I agree at least that far.
In the end though, the heart is hidden and out of our jurisdiction. I do not think continuing to hit on this is ultimately helpful. And I think we are out of the path of duty.
This all comes from my own self-examination. Just a month ago I had the most searching questions put to me for examination. One thing happened in that moment: I became much less concerned about getting online and debating, and much more concerned for my personal holiness. I probably went overboard in the baptism debates here, and I dont intend to debate politics or Doug Wilson. Even reading this morning from a Puritan author, contentions and controversies, if we are not careful, keep us from the more necessary things, and we incur sin by it.
I have asked myself, and I am hoping all others here too will ask, Am I nearly as concerned about rooting out sin in my life as exposing Kanye's hypocrisy? A good read-through of John Owen on mortification or on indwelling sin will almost make you forget that there are other sinners in the world.
If anything, if we are going to scrutinize Kanye to the degree we are, we are obligated to be all the more rigorous with ourselves. As Reformed Christians, if we are hard and searching with him, how much all the more with ourselves when we know so much. And if we are, then there's little time left for Kanye.
Phil D.
Puritan Board Junior
Point well-taken, Randy. Thank you.
Just to clarify my previous remarks: I was not intending to specifically label anyone a conspiracy theorist. I just think that prominently using a questionable tactic common among them, specifically with regard to image association, tends to undermine overall credibility. So I think taking that tack is conspiracy theory-ish. This is similar to knowing that while we have all done fool-ish things in our lives, I would not deem or call anyone here on the PB an actual fool.
RPEphesian
Puritan Board Junior
Conceded. And that is fair. And reflecting, let me be the first to say that though I think I'm speaking truthfully, I've spoken hastily and with undue heat. For that I ask forgiveness,
@My Pilgrim Way
@alexandermsmith
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Just to be honest Phil, I see it. No biggy here though. Images tend to only be effective over those influenced with knowledge of the Idol. It can be more influential when superstitious thought has been activated toward fear or affection. We know that an Idol has no power or stems from God.
Psa 115:1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.
Psa 115:2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?
Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Psa 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
Psa 115:5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
Psa 115:6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
Psa 115:7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
Psa 115:8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
Psa 115:9 O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
I personally think the following things should be considered. They will reveal enough.
Kayne West doesn't belong to any Church? Does he attend any Church? Who is his Pastor? Who does he have to help teach him the scriptures? Does he have an influence in his life?
Psa 115:1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.
Psa 115:2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?
Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Psa 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
Psa 115:5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
Psa 115:6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
Psa 115:7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
Psa 115:8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
Psa 115:9 O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
I personally think the following things should be considered. They will reveal enough.
Kayne West doesn't belong to any Church? Does he attend any Church? Who is his Pastor? Who does he have to help teach him the scriptures? Does he have an influence in his life?
BayouHuguenot
Puritanboard Clerk
I'm just glad Kanye broke free from Monarch programming.
Phil D.
Puritan Board Junior
Must admit I had to Google that one...
Okay, But to what has he broken free to? I am not saying the scripture below is completely applicable but....
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
Kayne West doesn't belong to any Church? Does he attend any Church? Who is his Pastor? Who does he have to help teach him the scriptures? Does he have an influence in his life? Let me ask one other question. Which Jesus does he know? Is it a different King Jesus? Is it one imagined up by men's imaginations? I guess these things will be revealed in time.
I don't believe there is Salvation outside of the Church. Jesus made and Love's His Church and he gave its structure to us to keep us safe. So back to my questions just above this statement?
Kayne West is trying to influence others with something. Maybe we should be cautious since he is widely known and influential and we will be confronted with this stuff.
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My Pilgrim Way
Puritan Board Freshman
I forgive you.
My Pilgrim Way
Puritan Board Freshman
I agree. Symbols and imagery are nothing and are no cause for fear, but they do convey an antichrist sentiment.
However, we are constantly being bombarded overtly and many times covertly (quick, flashing symbols) by media and specifically, Hollywood. If they aren't intended to deaden our senses and awareness, there would be no need for it. It is form of mind control in itself.
BayouHuguenot
Puritanboard Clerk
I am just rejoicing from a kind, humane standpoint that he isn't be psychologically tortured anymore. I can be "TR" about it later.
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
I don't think you have anything to ask forgiveness for from me. We're all good.
Kinghezy
Puritan Board Sophomore
Would me dropping Chris Tomlin singing Kanye help with shutting it down?A thirty day pause on Kanye threads...
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