Kanye's Movie "Jesus is King"

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My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
I did a bit of research and it seems that it is meant to elicit a spiritual experience that has nothing to do with the God of scripture. It was filmed in Roden Crater, created by James Turrell. He was raised in a Quaker home where "inner light" is a key doctrine. In January, he dontated $10 million dollars to help Turrell finish the project at Roden Crater.

The film features a Ganzfeld effect in a tunnel called Alpha (East) early on. A Ganzfeld effect (perceptual deprivation) causes "neural noise" and gives rise to hallucinations or cause altered states of consciousness.

This should cause believers to question the intent of the movie and exactly what light Kanye is trying to lead others to. Perceptual deprivation that can lead to altered thinking is not of God. It would also explain the images on his clothing merchandise in addition to the Romish icons and portrayal of Christ. He has frequently made reference to Rome in a positive light during his Sunday Services and interviews.

As an aside, he has not removed his old music from his YouTube channel. He produced Jay-Z's song "Lucifer". Jay-Z is a take on J-Hova and he is often just called Hova while Yeeezy (Yeezus) is a take on Jesus.

If he truly wanted to share the gospel, he would not be making merchandise of it.
 
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My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
Yes. I am no stranger to new age/occult thoughts and ideas having lived in LA for many years. Light, color, energy, and vibrations are known vehicles they like to manipulate to cause altered states of consciousness and affect one's chakras. Ironically, Kanye's album Yandhi never dropped but was leaked and contained a track called Chakras/Law of Attraction.

Before I was saved, I attended a music concert where they manipulated these things (light, color, energy, vibrations). Even then, I knew there was something amiss although it sounded beautiful (Satan was created beautiful). The person I went with was a DJ and heavily involved in the occult, although I didn't realize the extent until the Lord saved me. He also had no problem speaking of Jesus or being born again.

For his Jesus is King concert, he took some of those songs from the Yandhi album and set the music to different lyrics.

The spaces created at Roden all have names that points to pagan culture/worship with the ability to manipulate perception for the viewer. This is different than merely admiring the heavens. Personally, I believe it is an occult worship center in the Painted Desert of Arizona.

There will also be special imaging that coincides with winter solstice. Kanye is planning another album called Jesus is Born or something like that on Dec 25th. I wonder if it will also be filmed at Roden.

http://rodencrater.com/celestial-events/
 
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Charles Johnson

Puritan Board Sophomore
Perceptual deprivation that can lead to altered thinking is not of God.
When I'm trying to fall asleep but just can't seem to and I stay there with my eyes closed while wide awake for five, ten minutes, the 'perceptual deprivation' causes me to see rippled patterns of a couple colors. It looks something like the screen on my window to keep bugs out in the summer. You'd have a hard time convincing me that my infrequent insomnia is the work of demons. There's nothing inherently sinister about sensory deprivation or any other visual or auditory effects. We would do well to make charitable judgments concerning this new brother, taking into account his words [which boldly proclaim that Jesus is King!] and his actions, measured according to the perfect rule of the law of God, working to avoid uncharitable speculation about his work, intentions, audio and visual effects, if something is his video looks sort of like the Eye of Horus (I don't see the resemblance), etc. This reminds me of a number of years ago when people were saying that Lecrae had sold his soul to the illuminati in order to sell more records, and this because one of his music videos had a triangular aesthetic.
 

My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
When I'm trying to fall asleep but just can't seem to and I stay there with my eyes closed while wide awake for five, ten minutes, the 'perceptual deprivation' causes me to see rippled patterns of a couple colors. It looks something like the screen on my window to keep bugs out in the summer. You'd have a hard time convincing me that my infrequent insomnia is the work of demons. There's nothing inherently sinister about sensory deprivation or any other visual or auditory effects. We would do well to make charitable judgments concerning this new brother, taking into account his words [which boldly proclaim that Jesus is King!] and his actions, measured according to the perfect rule of the law of God, working to avoid uncharitable speculation about his work, intentions, audio and visual effects, if something is his video looks sort of like the Eye of Horus (I don't see the resemblance), etc. This reminds me of a number of years ago when people were saying that Lecrae had sold his soul to the illuminati in order to sell more records, and this because one of his music videos had a triangular aesthetic.
Nothing said about your insomnia.

The symbol is plain as day for those who care to see it.
 
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My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
The twitter link shows an aerial view of Roden Crater with a path around it to resemble the eye of Horus (occult symbol). This is from the IMAX twitter account. He is no stranger to occult imagery.

https://www.rap-up.com/2010/06/29/the-6-figure-price-tag-on-kanye-wests-bet-awards-jewelry/

I know a woman who was very prominent in the New Age community who came to saving faith 2 yrs. ago. She renounced all of her beliefs and left her lucrative business to follow Christ. We spoke this past Lord's day and she finds it difficult to understand how so many Christians aren't being discerning because it is clear to her. She was deep into the world and grew up without ever hearing of Jesus or the gospel in a Buddhist home.
 
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Tom Hart

Puritan Board Senior
The twitter link shows an aerial view of Roden Crater with a path around it to resemble the eye of Horus (occult symbol).
I checked the link and I searched more pictures of Roden Crater. I know what the Eye of Horus looks like. I am not seeing it.

I asked where you were getting this from. Is this Eye of Horus thing your own observation?
 

My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
I checked the link and I searched more pictures of Roden Crater. I know what the Eye of Horus looks like. I am not seeing it.

I asked where you were getting this from. Is this Eye of Horus thing your own observation?
What I'm speaking of is from the aerial view from his movie not the website for Roden. Although it might be a rudimentary depiction, it is there.

No, it is not just my observation or imagination - see link in post #8.
 
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My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
In 2010 (the same year he produced Lucifer with Jay-Z), he wore a $275 Givenchy t-shirt "Jesus is Lord". None of this is new.

Kanye-West-Givenchy-Jesus-is-Lord-tshirt-white-1-1.jpg
 
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Charles Johnson

Puritan Board Sophomore
In 2010 (the same year he produced Lucifer with Jay-Z), he wore a $275 Givenchy t-shirt "Jesus is Lord". None of this is new.

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"He was a hypocrite before his conversion, therefore he must be one after" is an unsound argument. The Apostle Paul claimed to worship God in truth before his conversion. Then, he claimed to worship God after his conversion. Is this evidence that his conversion was false? Of course not.
 

My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
"He was a hypocrite before his conversion, therefore he must be one after" is an unsound argument. The Apostle Paul claimed to worship God in truth before his conversion. Then, he claimed to worship God after his conversion. Is this evidence that his conversion was false? Of course not.
Your words, not mine.
 

Tom Hart

Puritan Board Senior
What I'm speaking of is from the aerial view from his movie not the website for Roden. Although it might be a rudimentary depiction, it is there.
Earlier you said it was "clearly" the Eye of Horus. Now it's only rudimentary.
No, it is not just my observation or imagination - see link in post #8.
OK, so he has a Horus necklace. Weird and creepy? Sure. But that doesn't prove that Roden Crater looks like the Eye of Horus (and it doesn't).
 

My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
"{Turrell’s Ganzfelds, like his other light installations, offer no representational images or stories, although they are not abstract. “My work is very literal and in that sense very American,” he says. “It’s not about light—it is light.” In the last two decades, however, Turrell has often used allusive titles for his work, such as the reference to the Egyptian god Aten, and many of his Skyspaces emulate ritual architecture such as stupas and pyramids. These allusions, together with his descriptions of Roden Crater as a site created to connect viewers with the movements of planets, stars, and distant galaxies, have heightened critics’ suspicions about Turrell’s sympathies with New Age cultures such as those famously headquartered in Sedona, Arizona, not far from Roden Crater.

“I am interested in the dynamics of inner vision and religious traditions dealing with light, including the Quaker faith I grew up with,” he admits. “But I’m mostly interested in what I know. It’s not that I keep a lid on what I believe, but I want to have my believing kept very close to the knowing. I think most of us recognize that light filling a void can be a very powerful experience—a reminder that segregating the literal and what we call the ‘spiritual’ can sometimes be a meaningless distinction.”}"

God is light!
 
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My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
If the point of this thread isn't to cast doubt on Kanye West's intentions then I don't have any idea what the point is. You literally questioned "what light Kanye is trying to lead to".
Why is it that when someone attempts to warn others to be discerning, they are taken to task? How is it uncharitable to exercise discernment?
 

Tom Hart

Puritan Board Senior
Are we called to alter reality or change the way we perceive the world? What is the "something else" Turrell is connected to?

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/11/5/20942006/kanye-west-james-turrell-Jesus-is-king-roden-crater
So Turrell is a (former?) Quaker. He's got weird ideas. And Kanye uses his light effects? OK.

There are some missing pieces here. I'm not sure how you're making all these connections, how you make your way from Turrell's wacky art installation to Kanye worshipping Horus (or something).
 

Tom Hart

Puritan Board Senior
In 2010 (the same year he produced Lucifer with Jay-Z), he wore a $275 Givenchy t-shirt "Jesus is Lord". None of this is new.
Could you please explain the relevance of this comment?
Why is it that when someone attempts to warn others to be discerning, they are taken to task? How is it uncharitable to exercise discernment?
Are you or are you not seeking to cast doubt on Mr. West's professed faith in Christ?
 

My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
Could you please explain the relevance of this comment?

Are you or are you not seeking to cast doubt on Mr. West's professed faith in Christ?
When you (and others) ask me to clarify information and I respond with reasons why there should be caution, I'm being uncharitable at best.

Was the apostle Paul automatically accepted?
 

Tom Hart

Puritan Board Senior
When you (and others) ask me to clarify information and I respond with reasons why there should be caution, I'm being uncharitable at best.

Was the apostle Paul automatically accepted?
You are trying to encourage caution, then? Do you see a lot of people here trumpeting Kanye's cause? Besides, you speak as though you are certain of his spiritual condition. From most of your posts it does not look like a "cautious" approach. Why, for instance, do you see fit to raise a new convert's past godlessness (which the man has admitted) as apparent proof of his current state before God?

Further, if caution is all you wish to promote, there might be better ways of doing it than posting about somewhat spurious ties to occultic activities. This Eye of Horus business is hardly convincing.
 
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JTB.SDG

Puritan Board Junior
Why is it that when someone attempts to warn others to be discerning, they are taken to task? How is it uncharitable to exercise discernment?
Sister, you are surely entitled to your own thoughts and opinions. But surely you realize if you post them here you will receive feedback of those who don't agree with you. You should be willing to interact with those interacting with you.
 

alexandermsmith

Puritan Board Junior
When I'm trying to fall asleep but just can't seem to and I stay there with my eyes closed while wide awake for five, ten minutes, the 'perceptual deprivation' causes me to see rippled patterns of a couple colors. It looks something like the screen on my window to keep bugs out in the summer. You'd have a hard time convincing me that my infrequent insomnia is the work of demons. There's nothing inherently sinister about sensory deprivation or any other visual or auditory effects. We would do well to make charitable judgments concerning this new brother, taking into account his words [which boldly proclaim that Jesus is King!] and his actions, measured according to the perfect rule of the law of God, working to avoid uncharitable speculation about his work, intentions, audio and visual effects, if something is his video looks sort of like the Eye of Horus (I don't see the resemblance), etc. This reminds me of a number of years ago when people were saying that Lecrae had sold his soul to the illuminati in order to sell more records, and this because one of his music videos had a triangular aesthetic.

Are you actually suggesting this Lecrae person is a believer? And you do realise that when you make a statement like "We would do well to make charitable judgments concerning this new brother" (emphasis added) that you are making a loaded statement and begging the question? Perhaps you have missed the two previous conversations on this topic where extensive argumentation has been made why we should be very cautious so I will give you the benfit of the doubt here. However there is no warrant to just assume he is converted and there is much reason to be wary. Christians should be very careful about making blanket statements like the one you made.
 

alexandermsmith

Puritan Board Junior
I checked the link and I searched more pictures of Roden Crater. I know what the Eye of Horus looks like. I am not seeing it.

I asked where you were getting this from. Is this Eye of Horus thing your own observation?

There is an obvious correlation between the two images. Unless you're actually going to argue the outline round the building is coincidental?
 

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alexandermsmith

Puritan Board Junior
You are trying to encourage caution, then? Do you see a lot of people here trumpeting Kanye's cause? Besides, you speak as though you are certain of his spiritual condition. From most of your oosts it does not look like a "cautious" approach. Why, for instance, do you see fit to raise a new convert's past godlessness (which the man has admitted) as apparent proof of his current state before God?

Yes there are a lot of people trumpeting Kanye's cause. The very first post on this forum on the new album's release said "Listening to his album I honestly have no reason to believe that he is not a brother in Christ." This has been followed by repeated assertions that Kanye West is definitely converted and to question this is a breach of the 9th Commandment. Posts in this thread have also unequivocally asserted he is converted- including your own that I'm responding to(!): is he definitely a "new convert"? A new convert to what? The faith? He's not attending a church; he has started his own (pagan) ceremonies; he is promoting heretical preachers. A new convert in the sense of regeneration? "Ye shall know them by their fruits." As has been stated here and elsewhere, so far the fruits are not nearly conclusive enough for an assumption of conversion.

Some of us have suggested caution and have been attacked because of it.

Listening to his album I honestly have no reason to believe that he is not a brother in Christ.Further, if caution is all you wish to promote, there might be better ways of doing it than posting about somewhat spurious ties to occultic activities. This Eye of Horus business is hardly convincing.

You have already conceded he has a Horus necklace; the eye issue- whether overt or rudimentary- is obviously there. There is the Satanic imagery in his clothing mentioned. How many pagan associations are acceptable? How many does it take before you start to question what is going on?
 

RPEphesian

Puritan Board Junior
Seriously, it's time that this was put to rest. There is no more to be said by either side.

We all have our duties God called us to--endless speculation and debate about someone that none of us has contact with, and of whom none of us here can get a complete picture of his personal/spiritual life, is not one of them.

I say we let Kanye rise or fall before his own master now, and be as careful to examine our own spiritual lives as we are his. What mightily different Christians we would be, and how absolutely humbled before God, if we did for ourselves what we are doing to him.

And that is actually our duty.

And if we will do that as we ought, we will find out quickly that we don't have time to think about Kanye West.
 
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