Do you mean the "owenians vs double enders?" That is becasue propitiation is the root. And double enders are wrong!!!! I do not believe I am explaining away the text Marty. We cannot approach scripture without any presumed truths. If one does, we will be most miserable in our faith and understanding. Why look for a middle road or compramising solution? We know that cannot be truth in a matter as this. One that I find most needed of debate. We are talking of the atonement here. This trumps secularism and post modernism. There is just too much weight of scripture against universal benefits. If I took your approach, I would be led to believe I could earn my way in if I read the account of "Christ with the lawyer and sell all you have and follow me." So what do we do there? We do not allow one smidgen of truth to Law salvation. Yet, for some reason we have to hold in tension the 2 or 3 verses pulled out of context and compramise the Atonement. First of all, I am not giving the reprobate any of Christs blood for temporal benefits. If I am wrong, well then I pray to receive more light on the subject.