John Piper Interviews Rick Warren on doctrinal Issues

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Goodcheer68

Puritan Board Sophomore
I was not sure where to post this?

John Piper says that a lot of Reformed people are mistaken in their critique of Rick Warren and his Purpose Drive Life book. I watched most of the video and I see Rick Warren doing what he is good at; saying a lot but not saying anything.In other words vague answers that have lots of wiggle room to be able to go back and say that is not what he meant. John Piper seems to be eating this up, am I paranoid and in need of enlightenment or are many of us Reformed people still right about Rick Warren.
Whats your take...
[video]https://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/john-piper-interviews-rick-warren-on-doctrine[/video]


https://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/john-piper-interviews-rick-warren-on-doctrine
 

torstar

Puritan Board Sophomore
John is earnest and means well. It is tough to listen to answers to your careful questions and go down those rabbit trails.

The other man has 3 answers prepped for any question and plugs in the one he thinks will endear himself to the speaker, just a hunch...

Nobody is a bigger braggart than RW, if we only were as excellent as he is then we wouldn't need to preach a crucified and risen Saviour, would we...
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I think the Reformed community is right about RW. I also think that Piper has a tendency to overlook things with people (Wilson's Federal Vision for example).
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
I don't think I follow him on Twitter anymore, but from time to time Warren posts some things there that come across as somewhat hard-hitting and unexpected, so I think a number of people view him somewhat more favorably now than they might have a few years ago. The memory of PDL and 40 Days has probably also faded with some folks, perhaps especially younger ones.

From what I understand, the Piper/Warren lovefest had its genesis a few years ago when Warren told Piper he was reading Jonathan Edwards' works that year.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
From what I understand, the Piper/Warren lovefest had its genesis a few years ago when Warren told Piper he was reading Jonathan Edwards' works that year.

If a pagan were to read Calvin's Institutes, I still would not invite him to preach at my church.

(not saying RW is a pagan. Just making a comparison)
 

torstar

Puritan Board Sophomore
Send the pagan to Book III of the Institutes first, otherwise I won't believe it was fully read.

:lol:
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Send the pagan to Book III of the Institutes first, otherwise I won't believe it was fully read.

:lol:

There is a class on the Institutes on Itunes by a Dr. Christopher Morse. He is a prof at Union Theological Seminary. I listened to the first episode a few years back and though the guy was off his rocker. He is UMC and listed as a postliberal theologian (no clue what that means except you came from Yale and like Barth).

There is no way I would have that man preach in my church. I don't care that he has been teaching on the Institutes for years (maybe decades). It obviously hasn't sunk in what Calvin was saying.
 

torstar

Puritan Board Sophomore
Some like to brag they've read every page of Edwards' complete works, about 26 or so volumes at 800 pages each.

Wish I could see fruit from that.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I don't have the money to buy the volumes, much less the time to read all of them.
 

J. Dean

Puritan Board Junior
Warren's not a heretic, but not everything he lays out is necessarily spiritually edifying either.

I'm not particularly crazy about the way he runs his church, or that he uses The Message often for Bible verses.
 

Bill The Baptist

Puritan Board Graduate
I have a tremendous amount of respect for John Piper and his books have been very helpful and uplifting for me. That being said, I am becoming more and more concerned about some of the decisions he has made lately. I am not sure if he is just trying to promote Christian unity, or if he is just starting to get liberal in his old age. Either way, I am a little perplexed. :scratch:
 

torstar

Puritan Board Sophomore
John was great for getting me on the Road to Geneva, for that I am grateful.

The further down the road I got the less he was vital to me.
 

N. Eshelman

Puritan Board Senior
Sure you do. They are about 2 dollars on Kindle (volume 1 and 2, 95 cents apiece, with complete search and indexing). And at 20 K plus pages, you can just read 3 pages a day, and you'll be done in about 7 years...

Amazon.com: The Works of Jonathan Edwards, volume 2 of 2 (Samizdat Edition with Active Table of Contents), improved 2/6/2011 eBook: Jonathan Edwards: Kindle Store

That's not the Works of JE, only the "COMPLETE" works- meaning, whole books. This is the complete works of Edwards (which is still being completed): The Works of Jonathan Edwards Series
 

torstar

Puritan Board Sophomore
Always joked that he was at the same funeral as Piper and he quickly buzzed back on the BlackBerry to his research team "quick Piper here."

To which they buzzed back "BIG JONATHAN EDWARDS FAN"

"Pleased to meet you John, you know I'm reading the WHOLE Yale edition of Jonathan Edwards these days. Shouldn't take me all that long. Ho ho ho..."

and the rest is history.
 

Goodcheer68

Puritan Board Sophomore
I have a tremendous amount of respect for John Piper and his books have been very helpful and uplifting for me. That being said, I am becoming more and more concerned about some of the decisions he has made lately. I am not sure if he is just trying to promote Christian unity, or if he is just starting to get liberal in his old age. Either way, I am a little perplexed. :scratch:

:ditto:
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
No no no...

We are talking about the Yale edition as such...

THE WORKS OF JONATHAN EDWARDS

BTW I got an email the other day from an online bookseller saying that the Yale edn. is going out of print soon.

---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

I have a tremendous amount of respect for John Piper and his books have been very helpful and uplifting for me. That being said, I am becoming more and more concerned about some of the decisions he has made lately. I am not sure if he is just trying to promote Christian unity, or if he is just starting to get liberal in his old age. Either way, I am a little perplexed. :scratch:

Piper has always been somewhat more welcoming than MacArthur and some Reformed men. For example, a few years ago there was an uncritical tribute to the late John Wimber posted on the DG website. Even before Mahaney came on the scene, Piper had a "open but cautious" view toward charismaticism. As Phil Johnson said during the ruckus over the Warren invite, Piper of late seems to invite "badder bad boys" each year: Driscoll, Wilson and Warren. A lot of the younger Calvinistic types were upset with the Warren invite because Piper and other similar teachers led them out of the purpose driven and seeker sensitive type ministries.

The explanation that he wanted to learn more about Warren so he invited him to speak fell flat for me and a lot of others. If he just wanted to learn more or get to know him better they could email or talk on the phone or meet privately.
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
I just listened to bits and pieces of it.

In the video, Rick Warren affirmed biblical inerrancy and verbal plenary inspiration of Scripture. He affirmed unconditional election, the 5 solas, the doctrines of grace, and called himself a monergist. He affirmed that salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ, that hell is real and eternal, and that those who die without hearing the gospel are lost. He wasn't vague in any of those things, and he clearly has a desire to evangelize and save the lost around the world.

Now, it pains us to hear Rick Warren affirming the doctrines we hold dear, and yet have completely different methodology. However, I think we should be thankful that in the basic doctrines, Rick Warren is solid, and is committed to spreading the gospel.
 

Bill The Baptist

Puritan Board Graduate
Piper has always been somewhat more welcoming than MacArthur

Well, this is hardly a fair comparison. I think sandpaper underwear is more welcoming than Macarthur. That is not an insult. I love Macarthur (except for the dispensationalism) and I think all of us are gifted in different ways. John Macarthur is gifted in that he was given a holy anger towards all things that do not stand for biblical truth.
 

Goodcheer68

Puritan Board Sophomore
I did not hear him affirm election nor limited/particular atonement. His answers were what we would expect to hear from so called "biblicist", such as Calvary Chapel etc. They ride the fence. He said he believed in election BUT also whosoever wills etc. So what does that mean?... for a calvinist that answer means one thing and for an arminian it means something completely different. His answer left me wondering what was the meaning behind the answer. Before anyone says anything I do believe that whosoever does believe will be saved, But the question when dealing with unconditional election is "Do you believe that only those that are elected unto salvation will believe, and those that are not elect will not ever believe- Yes or No" If that question was posed I would bet that RW would answer differently. The questions were posed or set up to give RW ample room to be vague such as the Limited atonement question.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Sure you do. They are about 2 dollars on Kindle (volume 1 and 2, 95 cents apiece, with complete search and indexing). And at 20 K plus pages, you can just read 3 pages a day, and you'll be done in about 7 years...

Amazon.com: The Works of Jonathan Edwards, volume 2 of 2 (Samizdat Edition with Active Table of Contents), improved 2/6/2011 eBook: Jonathan Edwards: Kindle Store

I own these in hardback (even better than the amazon version is the free version on ccel.org BTW). I was referring to the Yale series.
 

torstar

Puritan Board Sophomore
I just listened to bits and pieces of it.

In the video, Rick Warren affirmed biblical inerrancy and verbal plenary inspiration of Scripture. He affirmed unconditional election, the 5 solas, the doctrines of grace, and called himself a monergist. He affirmed that salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ, that hell is real and eternal, and that those who die without hearing the gospel are lost. He wasn't vague in any of those things, and he clearly has a desire to evangelize and save the lost around the world.

Now, it pains us to hear Rick Warren affirming the doctrines we hold dear, and yet have completely different methodology. However, I think we should be thankful that in the basic doctrines, Rick Warren is solid, and is committed to spreading the gospel.


And with a different person to speak to he'll affirm something else.
 

Rich Koster

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
To me, Rick Warren appears to be more of a politician than a pastor. He could help get a struggling nation out of a rut, but he doesn't seem to have a handle on how to properly build a Church. :2cents:
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
Always joked that he was at the same funeral as Piper and he quickly buzzed back on the BlackBerry to his research team "quick Piper here."

To which they buzzed back "BIG JONATHAN EDWARDS FAN"

"Pleased to meet you John, you know I'm reading the WHOLE Yale edition of Jonathan Edwards these days. Shouldn't take me all that long. Ho ho ho..."

and the rest is history.

I was at that funeral. Warren and Piper sat next each other and were talking to each other here and there during the proceedings. (It was a long funeral, about three hours). Warren spoke immediately after Piper, and he commented how humbling it was to follow John Piper. In the course of his tribute, Warren mentioned that he reads through the complete works of a theologian every year, and that year he was reading Edwards, and discussed something that Edwards wrote.

He wasn't bragging, and he certainly wasn't trying to impress Piper.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
The community is cautious with RW. They think he is wishy washy and puts on a concert vs. having worship on too many occasions.
 

torstar

Puritan Board Sophomore
The community is cautious with RW. They think he is wishy washy and puts on a concert vs. having worship on too many occasions.


If he's putting on a concert he is hitting a clam on every note spiritually.

Today's best Twitter, as the toxic fallout continues, in detail, for a long time now..

"We would only be *somewhat* shocked if Spike Lee interviewed @RickWarren and Rick claimed to be an African-American."
 

Peytah

Puritan Board Freshman
Mighty men of God who have actually taken the time and effort to get to know Rick personally and affirmed him as a brother of Christ. Piper is not the only one, but many sound pastors that end up teaching alongside Rick will commend Rick's love for God and the gospel. I rejoice that the gospel is being spread by his influence.
 

torstar

Puritan Board Sophomore
Mighty men of God who have actually taken the time and effort to get to know Rick personally and affirmed him as a brother of Christ. Piper is not the only one, but many sound pastors that end up teaching alongside Rick will commend Rick's love for God and the gospel. I rejoice that the gospel is being spread by his influence.


Please list these "mighty men of God" who publicly confirm that Rick is preaching anything remotely like the Gospel.

Piper's credibility has been under dire attack for his earnest attempts to explain himself on this one...
 
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