John Piper and the prosperity gospel

[Claudiu]

I think this is a good video


DELETED BY ADMIN. DO NOT PUT BACK.


The prosperity gospel has been a bandwagon among the mega-churches in the past decade (ironic. though, how America is now in a bad financial crisis).

Anyways, I wanted to get some thoughts about the video, and what you guys think about the preaching of the prosperity gospel as a whole?

 

[AThornquist]

I know that audio clip well...and I totally agree with Piper. There are some things that we must be OUTRAGED about--and the prosperity lie is one of them.

 

[Scott1]

Mr Piper is right on. This is what appeals to the "old nature."

One other comment, this is more on the realm of opinion, and based on some things my grandfather told me.

Only an idolatrous, self seeking generation would call it a "crisis" when an ordinary family can only afford to live in a 1200 square foot home rather than a 3200 square foot one. It's a condition of our times, and many people in the church have gotten caught up in it. God is bringing things down to value, and chastening a lot of idolatry, presumption on the part of God's people with it, and revealing a lot of hearts in the process. This will be painful... pray we do not lose our freedom.

 

[SolaScriptura]

That was outstanding. Thank you for that.

 

[PresbyDane]

Thanks for sharing

 

[Claudiu]

Mr Piper is right on. This is what appeals to the "old nature."

One other comment, this is more on the realm of opinion, and based on some things my grandfather told me.

Only an idolatrous, self seeking generation would call it a "crisis" when an ordinary family can only afford to live in a 1200 square foot home rather than a 3200 square foot one. It's a condition of our times, and many people in the church have gotten caught up in it. God is bringing things down to value, and chastening a lot of idolatry, presumption on the part of God's people with it, and revealing a lot of hearts in the process. This will be painful... pray we do not lose our freedom.

I think that when a nation or people go through times like these many people are humbled. I am. I can see that God is the one in control of everything. In general, people that get caught up in the prosperity lose sight of God. If the times we are going through right now humble people and bring them to realize who God really is, then it is actually a good thing we are going through.

 

[kvanlaan]

I love that clip and am a fellow employer of righteous hatred when I hear the wicked twisting a beautiful and perfect Gospel into the 'prosperity' millstone.

 

[Rangerus]

Amen to this powerful message from Piper. Oh the growing ecumenical apostate church which has no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. For in their heart are filled with the fruit of their ways.

 

[kvanlaan]

Actually, after looking at it, I realise it is not the same one I've seen in the past (though it is the same audio clip).

But try as I may (and there are many versions out there), I can't find one without 2nd commandment violations...

 

[AThornquist]

Same here, Kevin. There was one that seemed clean up until the very end but nay, they had to slip in a quick violation. Gah!

 

[Rangerus]

call me stupid, but could someone expand on the 2nd commandment violations of which we speak?

 

[AThornquist]

I assume they are talking about the images of Jesus on the cross.

-----Added 3/4/2009 at 11:37:03 EST-----

I didn't even pay attention to the background until I heard that there was a violation. Sounds like you did the same?

 

[AThornquist]

I have heard the entire message; it is on the internet somewhere.

 

[Claudiu]

Yeah, it's a good video for the most part. Too bad it had 2nd Commandment Violations in it. Sorry, but the mean ole Administrator deleted it. Maybe we could find a version of it without the counter-productive violations existing in it.

Aw man

I didn't even catch it....I looked at it again, and saw it right at the end now that you guy's have mentioned it, I'll try to look for one that is appropriate.

 

[AThornquist]

Found it.

The link to the audio is at the bottom of this page: UCF Birmingham Archive 2005

Or directly to the audio: Piper's message at UCF Birmingham



-----Added 3/5/2009 at 12:10:42 EST-----

Oh and the little clip on the prosperity gospel is quite a way into the message, If I recall correctly.

 

[Pergamum]

Ah, God the Magic Genie....rub the lamp of prayer and make a wish for gold.

 

[Classical Presbyterian]

All:

It could be perceived that I, acting as an Admin on the board, am one who likes to go throughout the board and find things to delete, etc. based upon my own personal pet doctrines, etc. Please allow me to alleviate that sentiment.

I am but a mere man, plagued by that residue of indwelling sin that plagues us all. I am not here to sniff out others' sins because I cannot get past the stench of my own. That being noted, as an Administrator of the board that holds the Westminster Standards as our primary Confession, I do feel the necessity to delete things at times according to said standards. I do not act as an officer of the court in the Church at large, only as an Administrator of the Puritan Board.

It looks to me as if you're doing your job and doing it with all due diligence!

 

[Skyler]

The prosperity gospel--"name it, claim it".

Or, as Curt Daniel refers to it, "blab it, grab it".

It seems to me that it attempts to take the benefits of Christianity and apply them regardless of a person's spiritual state. Doesn't seem to work to me.

 

[Scott1]

Mr Piper is right on. This is what appeals to the "old nature."

One other comment, this is more on the realm of opinion, and based on some things my grandfather told me.

Only an idolatrous, self seeking generation would call it a "crisis" when an ordinary family can only afford to live in a 1200 square foot home rather than a 3200 square foot one. It's a condition of our times, and many people in the church have gotten caught up in it. God is bringing things down to value, and chastening a lot of idolatry, presumption on the part of God's people with it, and revealing a lot of hearts in the process. This will be painful... pray we do not lose our freedom.

I think that when a nation or people go through times like these many people are humbled. I am. I can see that God is the one in control of everything. In general, people that get caught up in the prosperity lose sight of God. If the times we are going through right now humble people and bring them to realize who God really is, then it is actually a good thing we are going through.

Difficulties can humble people.

Some will prove out more resentment they have toward God, "their lot in life," their presumption upon material things, their covetousness, their idolatry, their demand to see others suffer, etc. But one thing the Bible teaches us is that God uses all things to work His glorious will, even difficult things.

-----Added 3/5/2009 at 03:42:44 EST-----

The prosperity gospel--"name it, claim it".

Or, as Curt Daniel refers to it, "blab it, grab it".

It seems to me that it attempts to take the benefits of Christianity and apply them regardless of a person's spiritual state. Doesn't seem to work to me.

I was thinking along these same lines. The attitudes that underlie what we call the "prosperity gospel," create false expectations that are neither biblical nor practical.

We expect economic cycles to always be up, up, up, that we are "entitled" to things, that other people must be perfect and easy, or something is wrong.

Something is wrong, all right. It is sin, and is wrong with us!

 

[Claudiu]

All:

It could be perceived that I, acting as an Admin on the board, am one who likes to go throughout the board and find things to delete, etc. based upon my own personal pet doctrines, etc. Please allow me to alleviate that sentiment.

I am but a mere man, plagued by that residue of indwelling sin that plagues us all. I am not here to sniff out others' sins because I cannot get past the stench of my own. That being noted, as an Administrator of the board that holds the Westminster Standards as our primary Confession, I do feel the necessity to delete things at times according to said standards. I do not act as an officer of the court in the Church at large, only as an Administrator of the Puritan Board.

No harsh feelings...just doing your job...I understand