John 15:6 and Romans 11:21?

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Sovereign Grace

Puritan Board Sophomore
Seeing that I cling to the ‘P’ in TULIP, and that none of the elect will fully and finally fall away, in these two verses, it seems, at least to me, there is some sort of real connection to Christ concerning those who were cut off. So, what is it that John and Paul are really saying, as I know it’s not about the saved becoming unsaved and eternally lost? Could this be them being cut off from the covenant, as the sign of the covenant, whether it be circumcision in the OT or baptism in the new, does not guarantee salvation? Or is it something else I’m not seeing/grasping? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.


FYI, I did a search on here but couldn’t find anything of help. TIA
 

You may find this interesting
I am not sure why this thread would be interesting. Personally I could argue against me since that year was a transition year for me. I started to see the similarities between the Mosaic and the New Covenant. The Republication issue was pushed to the forefront because its theology was being tainted by Westminster West. The unbiblical and unconfessional positions that were developing out of Westminster West teaching were crippling the Church when it came to application. The boundaries were all confused and very anabaptist in my estimation.

I started my exposure concerning my change of position here.

https://www.puritanboard.com/thread...not-confessional-concerning-the-mosaic.69258/


I am not sure you can compare the two passages as equivalent topics. You might be right in doing so but I am not so sure the topic warrants it.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

There are quite a few threads on Covenant Membership that might be beneficial.
Anyways, since my thread was listed as reference point I would be inclined to post that a year later after a lot of counsel I started to post my change of position from a Reformed Baptist to a Covenant Theologian. It took thirty years. LOL.
Why I Was Drawn Into The Nuanced Republication and Mosaic Covenant Study
 
I am not sure why this thread would be interesting. Personally I could argue against me since that year was a transition year for me. I started to see the similarities between the Mosaic and the New Covenant. The Republication issue was pushed to the forefront because its theology was being tainted by Westminster West. The unbiblical and unconfessional positions that were developing out of Westminster West teaching were crippling the Church when it came to application. The boundaries were all confused and very anabaptist in my estimation.

I started my exposure concerning my change of position here.

https://www.puritanboard.com/thread...not-confessional-concerning-the-mosaic.69258/


I am not sure you can compare the two passages as equivalent topics. You might be right in doing so but I am not so sure the topic warrants it.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

There are quite a few threads on Covenant Membership that might be beneficial.
Anyways, since my thread was listed as reference point I would be inclined to post that a year later after a lot of counsel I started to post my change of position from a Reformed Baptist to a Covenant Theologian. It took thirty years. LOL.
Why I Was Drawn Into The Nuanced Republication and Mosaic Covenant Study
I’ll do a search for covenant membership and see what comes up. Thanks bunches!
 
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