Jesus Hates Religion

[PuritanCovenanter]

Most of the people that I have encountered through the years equate religion with the organized church (religion as they put it). They don't have a problem with Jesus. They have a problem with organized religion. What that mostly entails is a sloppy understanding of the Church as an organism and a hatred for authority. I had a friend post to me on facebook that, "I am my own religion." This person claims Christ. YUK!

 

[J. Dean]

Here's a blog that dealt with it. Interesting take. Why I Love (True) Religion Because I Love Jesus « Roads from Emmaus

Edit: the blogger critiquing the video seems to be Arminian, so watch out for the "cooperating grace" stuff in his response. But he does nail a lot of it on the head.

 

[JStone]

To be fair, he uses the term "false religion" in his own description of the video. But yeah, lots of problems here.

 

[seajayrice]

Did this fellow mention he loves God's people? The poem seems to typify that individualistic evangelism one find so common in the church.

 

[J. Dean]

Did this fellow mention he loves God's people? The poem seems to typify that individualistic evangelism one find so common in the church.

I think that, if I remember correctly, he does proclaim that he loves the church.

 

[Zach]

Kevin DeYoung also wrote a very good response.

Does Jesus Hate Religion? Kinda, Sorta, Not Really.

 

[JohnGill]

I think it demonstrates the need in modern Christendom for catechistic teaching.

 

[Philip]

Here's a blog that dealt with it. Interesting take. Why I Love (True) Religion Because I Love Jesus « Roads from Emmaus

This response was from an Eastern Orthodox priest, and I felt that much of it, as a result, failed to appreciate the context into which Mr. Bethke is speaking (presumably conservative evangelical Protestant Churchianity). Rev. DeYoung's article is a more relevant one for this reason.

 

[Jack K]

Kevin DeYoung also wrote a very good response.

Does Jesus Hate Religion? Kinda, Sorta, Not Really.

Yes, a good response. Well worth reading if this video interests you.

 

[Zach]

Here's a blog that dealt with it. Interesting take. Why I Love (True) Religion Because I Love Jesus « Roads from Emmaus

This response was from an Eastern Orthodox priest, and I felt that much of it, as a result, failed to appreciate the context into which Mr. Bethke is speaking (presumably conservative evangelical Protestant Churchianity). Rev. DeYoung's article is a more relevant one for this reason.

Kevin DeYoung also wrote a very good response.

Does Jesus Hate Religion? Kinda, Sorta, Not Really.

Yes, a good response. Well worth reading if this video interests you.

The more I read from Kevin DeYoung the more I appreciate his wisdom and presentation of Gospel truth. The way he handled this video is exactly how it should be handled.

 

[Weston Stoler]

[Link removed by Moderator - due to Second Commandment violations.]

a word from the Lutheran. I actually enjoyed this

 

[JohnGill]

I really wasnt too upset about this video until this morning,then I saw the reaction from the people on all the networking sites.This guy really does not see what a mess he has gotten himself and others into...

I praise God for the reformation and it the true reformed churches we have today for being faithful to God and his word standing against postmodernism.

Nonetheless Jack you are right..it's just that this causing the wrong kind of uprising between christians and non christians ,all because he was careless with his words.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

I feel alot better now..I think he goes to Mark Driscolls church,that explains alot.

I was told by a friend today, who regrettably attends Driscoll's church, that Bethke does attend there as well. I made the mistake of posting James 1:26,27 as a response to my friend's posting of the video. The response was saddening, "I side with Jesus." I keep praying that my friend will attend a different church. The more I read about Driscoll's teaching the more worried I become for my friend.

 

[Weston Stoler]

I really wasnt too upset about this video until this morning,then I saw the reaction from the people on all the networking sites.This guy really does not see what a mess he has gotten himself and others into...

I praise God for the reformation and it the true reformed churches we have today for being faithful to God and his word standing against postmodernism.

Nonetheless Jack you are right..it's just that this causing the wrong kind of uprising between christians and non christians ,all because he was careless with his words.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

I feel alot better now..I think he goes to Mark Driscolls church,that explains alot.

I was told by a friend today, who regrettably attends Driscoll's church, that Bethke does attend there as well. I made the mistake of posting James 1:26,27 as a response to my friend's posting of the video. The response was saddening, "I side with Jesus." I keep praying that my friend will attend a different church. The more I read about Driscoll's teaching the more worried I become for my friend.

I wouldn't worry so much, yeah driscoll is non-orthodox in a lot of issues however for the most part he preaches truth. I attended his church this summer while in Seattle while a counselor at a camp (out of 3 choices it was the closest to Calvinism I could get) and I was fed.

 

[JohnGill]

I really wasnt too upset about this video until this morning,then I saw the reaction from the people on all the networking sites.This guy really does not see what a mess he has gotten himself and others into...

I praise God for the reformation and it the true reformed churches we have today for being faithful to God and his word standing against postmodernism.

Nonetheless Jack you are right..it's just that this causing the wrong kind of uprising between christians and non christians ,all because he was careless with his words.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

I feel alot better now..I think he goes to Mark Driscolls church,that explains alot.

I was told by a friend today, who regrettably attends Driscoll's church, that Bethke does attend there as well. I made the mistake of posting James 1:26,27 as a response to my friend's posting of the video. The response was saddening, "I side with Jesus." I keep praying that my friend will attend a different church. The more I read about Driscoll's teaching the more worried I become for my friend.

I wouldn't worry so much, yeah driscoll is non-orthodox in a lot of issues however for the most part he preaches truth. I attended his church this summer while in Seattle while a counselor at a camp (out of 3 choices it was the closest to Calvinism I could get) and I was fed.

Next time your there let me know, a friend of mine's dad is a Reformed pastor.

The videos I've seen of Driscoll are what worry me. God's word should not be so trivialized.

 

[Weston Stoler]

I really wasnt too upset about this video until this morning,then I saw the reaction from the people on all the networking sites.This guy really does not see what a mess he has gotten himself and others into...

I praise God for the reformation and it the true reformed churches we have today for being faithful to God and his word standing against postmodernism.

Nonetheless Jack you are right..it's just that this causing the wrong kind of uprising between christians and non christians ,all because he was careless with his words.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

I feel alot better now..I think he goes to Mark Driscolls church,that explains alot.

I was told by a friend today, who regrettably attends Driscoll's church, that Bethke does attend there as well. I made the mistake of posting James 1:26,27 as a response to my friend's posting of the video. The response was saddening, "I side with Jesus." I keep praying that my friend will attend a different church. The more I read about Driscoll's teaching the more worried I become for my friend.

I wouldn't worry so much, yeah driscoll is non-orthodox in a lot of issues however for the most part he preaches truth. I attended his church this summer while in Seattle while a counselor at a camp (out of 3 choices it was the closest to Calvinism I could get) and I was fed.

Next time your there let me know, a friend of mine's dad is a Reformed pastor.

The videos I've seen of Driscoll are what worry me. God's word should not be so trivialized.

The problem is I have to go where the other people go. Or else I would need a ride.
I will probably be there this summer
Anyways, I don't believe he misuses the word on purpose. Piper should call him out on some of these things since he tends to respect him.

 

[JM]

My favourite Lutheran minister has done a freestyle of his own. The video is jerky and he will sometimes throw images of Christ into them so what with this in mind.

Jesus = Religion

[Link removed by Moderator for Second Commandment violations.]

 

[AThornquist]

Following Up on the Jesus/Religion Video – Kevin DeYoung


Here is a follow-up blog post from Kevin DeYoung that highlights the young man's humility in accepting correction. He's apparently not as arrogant as some people make him out to be.

 

[GulfCoast Presbyterian]

Very gracious on both their parts.

 

[Unoriginalname]

Following Up on the Jesus/Religion Video – Kevin DeYoung


Here is a follow-up blog post from Kevin DeYoung that highlights the young man's humility in accepting correction. He's apparently not as arrogant as some people make him out to be.

That's awesome thanks for posting that.

 

[Zach]

It's great to see two brothers in Christ interacting with each other with grace and love. In an age where it's so easy to sit behind a computer screen and call people out and try to win arguments it is very refreshing.

 

[athanatos]

I am impressed with Bethke's timely, humble response; not surprised by DeYoung's critique (calm, appropriate, Biblical, pursuasive), even though DeYoung sees his tone and approach as a high-point not a typical point.

 

[JM]

For a Lutheran response see Revfiskj video on YouTube.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I really am grateful for the wonderful interaction and spirit Mr. Bethke expressed in corresponding with Kevin DeYoung. May we all be as teachable. Thanks for posting the follow up Andrew.

 

[dudley]

I say Amen to our brother Jack K. in all he said in his post on this thread and I add

"Religion" in the new sense (the sense understood by most non-PB folks in Western societies today) means doing your best to follow a set of principles that will win points with God or bring you some spiritual enlightenment. Understood that way—the way most people we know use the word most often today—Jesus is indeed against "religion." And it can be of great help to say this when explaining your faith to people.

When we've had discussions about this here in the past, there've always been many who resist giving in to this definition of "religion." They want to preserve a better one. I can see their point. There've also been some who object to the idea that "Christianity is not religion" on the grounds that it smells antinomian or probably reflects shallow thinking of some sort. No doubt it does for some who use the line.

But the importance of speaking to others about Christ in their language, the way they use it and understand it, should not be undervalued. Likewise, the importance of showing that faith in Christ must never be about winning points with God—that, in fact, it is the very opposite of this—cannot be overstressed. So I'm generally okay with the language that Jesus brought Good News, not "religion." I've used such lines myself (always explaining further what I mean).

That said, the particular example in the link is probably not as well thought out or expressed as it should be.

I say Amen to our brother Jack K. in all he said in his post on this thread. I especially agree when he said “ So I'm generally okay with the language that Jesus brought Good News, not "religion." I've used such lines myself (always explaining further what I mean).

The New Testament Gospels, Letters and Books demonstrate in every way that Jesus saw the old laws and its rules as not the essential message God wished to convey in sending His son to be the messiah. The new Testament is not about organized institutional religion and all the laws of the many books of the Old Testament. Instead Jesus in all the Gospels tells us that God wishes us to be like His son and Love the Lord your God with your whole heart and soul and Love your neighbor as thyself.

Love everyone, forgive everyone, and only do good.

Luke 6:27-28 “But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.” that is a substantial message of the New Testament.

With the coming of Christ, God has established a new covenant with mankind. Jesus and His apostles gave us a radically new understanding of the true intent of the Old Testament Law; they brought a new era of the rule of love for all people and spiritual truth instead of rule by law Luke 10:25-28, John 13:34-35

Luke 10:25-28 (New International Version)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Jesus wanted us to be His disciples and spread the Good news , not be as the old testament of laws and organized religion. I will note I left the roman catholic church and become a reformed protestant because the RC church in my experience is like the old churches of organized= religion , following many laws but not living as the disciples of the Lord which I believe is what the Reformed faith is all about; not an organized religion as the Jews knew it; but living the teachings of Jesus about Love and the spirit of the law.

John 13:34-35 (New International Version)
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
Ephesians 2:14-18 (New International Version)
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

John 13:34-35 (New International Version)
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

The teachings of Jesus, the Council of Jerusalem, and other New Testament teachings make it clear that Christians are not required to follow the Old Testament rules about crimes and punishments, warfare, slavery, diet, circumcision, sacrifice, feast days, Sabbath observance, ritual cleanness, etc.

Christians still look to the Old Testament scripture for moral and spiritual guidance. (2 Timothy 3:16-17). But when there seems to be a conflict between Old Testament laws and New Testament principles, we must follow the New Testament because it represents the most recent and most perfect revelation from God (Hebrews 8:13, 2 Corinthians 3:1-18, Galatians 2:15-20).

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (New International Version)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Footnotes:
2 Timothy 3:17 Or that you, a man of God,

Hebrews 8:13 (New International Version)
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

However, freedom from the Old Testament Law is not a license for Christians to relax their moral standards. The moral and ethical teachings of Jesus and His apostles call for even greater self-discipline than those of the Old Testament. The organized church as Jesus intended is there for moral guidance.

Corinthians 3:1-18 (New International Version)
2 Corinthians 3
1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Footnotes:
2 Corinthians 3:18 Or reflect
New International Version (NIV)

Galatians 2:15-20 (New International Version)
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Footnotes:
Galatians 2:16 Or but through the faithfulness of … justified on the basis of the faithfulness of

I end by again reiterating what Jesus said through the new testament. “I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me“.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

With the coming of Christ, God has established a new covenant with mankind. Jesus and His apostles gave us a radically new understanding of the true intent of the Old Testament Law; they brought a new era of the rule of love for all people and spiritual truth instead of rule by law Luke 10:25-28, John 13:34-35

Please read the following link brother. I am not so sure Jesus gave us a radically new understanding as much as he corrected the corrupted understanding that had developed.
Eschatological Fulfilment and the Confirmation of Mosaic Law (2002)
A Response to D. A. Carsonl

A young man and friend wrote this.

http://davidpulliam.blogspot.com/2012/01/is-Jesus-against-religion.html

Jesus, the God-man, was a religious man. He followed the Old Testament laws perfectly. This is why he is a perfect sacrifice for us sinners, He fulfilled the law. Bethke takes Old Testament Judaism and frames it in the context of modern Christianity. Using this picture, he bashes and tears modern Christianity down using Jesus' words.

Instead of making religion under the realm of our Lord's throne, Bethke rejects it. He fails to realize that Jesus never threw away religion. He fulfilled it perfectly. The law (religion) was fulfilled by Him so we don't have to try. That's the beauty of Jesus. Now all can come to the Father in purity and holiness, including religion! No tax collector. No prostitute and no pharisee is rejected. Even on the cross he said "forgive them for they know not what they do." Ethke doesn't forgive them. He hates them.

If only Ethke had focused just on Jesus on this poem. If only he had let Jesus take his hate and turn it into love then this poem could not only preach the Gospel to those who don't find the Gospel in the visible church, but also to those who are in the visible church but are lost. We must never ever forget that Jesus' love conquers all and everything comes under his sovereign throne. That's the beauty of Christ's kingdom, and religion is not exempt. I hope Bethke keeps writing but, more importantly I hope he realizes that Jesus' love reaches beyond what we are able to imagine because He is King and Lord over all!​

 

[Jack K]

"Religion" in the new sense (the sense understood by most non-PB folks in Western societies today) means doing your best to follow a set of principles that will win points with God or bring you some spiritual enlightenment. Understood that way—the way most people we know use the word most often today—Jesus is indeed against "religion." And it can be of great help to say this when explaining your faith to people.

When we've had discussions about this here in the past, there've always been many who resist giving in to this definition of "religion." They want to preserve a better one. I can see their point. There've also been some who object to the idea that "Christianity is not religion" on the grounds that it smells antinomian or probably reflects shallow thinking of some sort. No doubt it does for some who use the line.

But the importance of speaking to others about Christ in their language, the way they use it and understand it, should not be undervalued. Likewise, the importance of showing that faith in Christ must never be about winning points with God—that, in fact, it is the very opposite of this—cannot be overstressed. So I'm generally okay with the language that Jesus brought Good News, not "religion." I've used such lines myself (always explaining further what I mean).

That said, the particular example in the link is probably not as well thought out or expressed as it should be.

I say Amen to our brother Jack K. in all he said in his post on this thread. I especially agree when he said “ So I'm generally okay with the language that Jesus brought Good News, not "religion." I've used such lines myself (always explaining further what I mean).

The New Testament Gospels, Letters and Books demonstrate in every way that Jesus saw the old laws and its rules as not the essential message God wished to convey in sending His son to be the messiah. The new Testament is not about organized institutional religion and all the laws of the many books of the Old Testament. Instead Jesus in all the Gospels tells us that God wishes us to be like His son and Love the Lord your God with your whole heart and soul and Love your neighbor as thyself.

Thank you, Dudley, for your kind words. I always appreciate your desire to encourage the rest of us and your zeal for the gospel.

I do think we need to be careful, though, NOT to suggest that by proclaiming "good news" Jesus was introducing something totally unforeseen or declaring that the law revealed in the Old Testament did not reflect the true heart of God. I would say the Old Testament law, when properly understood and followed, never was "religion" in the bad sense we've been discussing here. God has never wanted his people to relate to him by winning points for following his rules. Not in Old Testament times, and not today.

I guess this is a good example of why it's always good to clarify and explain when using the word "religion" these days.

 

[ooguyx]

I think that views such as this "I'm for Jesus, not religion" is the natural logical conclusion to the non-demoninational movement. It's a movement away from true religion into fractured Jesus-ists. The guy in this video simply has his terms mixed up, but it won't be long before the terms will just be redefined and then used in just this way to promote a move away from the church in an effort to be more Christ-like. Much like Driscoll's "Jesus is the head pastor" routine.