Jesus Hates Religion

Discussion in 'General discussions' started by JS116, Jan 11, 2012.

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  1. JS116

    JS116 Puritan Board Freshman

    Take a minute to check out this short 4 minute video that was taken yesterday of a spoken word poet speaking about religion and Jesus,it's the buzz on the social networks.

    ***Watch BEFORE you comment***

    Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus || Spoken Word - YouTube

    I believe the guy has alot of good points but needs to be corrected on a couple things,but I'll wait to you guys watch and then i'll respond...
     
  2. Andres

    Andres Puritan Board Doctor

    I guess we’d have to define “religion” first.
     
  3. Beoga

    Beoga Puritan Board Freshman

    My comment, after watching, via the social networks:

    "Religion says do, Jesus says done. Except Jesus said do:
    "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love," John 15:10
    "If you love me, you will obey my commands." John 14:15"

    That being said, the video wasn't as bad as I was anticipating, though I don't know what that says.
     
  4. Pilgrim's Progeny

    Pilgrim's Progeny Puritan Board Sophomore

    This man seems to define "religion" as a cover up to conceal the true character of those who live this "religion"

    "Religion" as I see it defined in this video is synonymous with hypocrisy.

    So, Yes, Jesus hates "religion".

    True religion =
    With this right understanding, Jesus loves "religion".

    True religion as I understand it is not me commending myself to God and man, but my reasonable act of service to God and man in the sight of a God who is pleased with me because I am the fruit of the travail of His son.

    The problem with "religion" is that is so often misunderstood, it is just too ambiguous I think and therefore I believe the speaker may be doing faithful adherents to "true religion" more harm than good.:2cents:
     
  5. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

    Jesus came to abolish religion? This poor soul needs to square up his terminology on a few different levels. To start with he needs to know what religion is and what it isn't. I suspect he might have many other issues also. This young man seems to not understand that there is true religion in comparison to false religion. Only a novice would say that Christianity isn't a religion. There are many religious beliefs and religions. This pompous kid wants to start his own epistemological reference point. He is the definer of what is and isn't. Wow, that must be pretty cool. I guess he is on the level of God in giving words their meaning now. Jesus came to save and seek. That is true. He didn't come to abolish religion. He came to establish His Kingdom and reconcile us to God so that we could perform our duty to God and be righteous.

    (Jas 1:26) If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.


    (Jas 1:27) Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

    It is fine if this young man wants to confront hypocrisy. I have no problem with that. The book of James does this also.

    By the way this young man talks, we should probably relegate the word faith to obscurity also. There is true faith and false faith. Christianity is a religion of faith in Christ. If you were to tell an atheist that Christianity wasn't a world religion you would be laughed at. The word religion is not a bad word as this person is making it out to be. This kind of stuff just makes me sick and makes Christians look mindless. I use to hear this tripe from people who mostly despised authority but wanted to claim Christ. Jesus and me stuff. He says that he loves the Church. But which Church does he love? What does he mean by Church? What is his reference point for defining that? Maybe I should rely upon him for a definition of Faith and Church also?

    Am I getting my point across?
     
  6. Pilgrim's Progeny

    Pilgrim's Progeny Puritan Board Sophomore

    I had a burst of anger that raised up in my breast as I watched the video as well.

    The sad thing is that you this "pompous" rhetoric is all too common.

    It sort of reminds me me of the following parable

    You know, a possible third man at the temple saying, "Thank you, I am not like the Pharisees . . ."
     
  7. steadfast7

    steadfast7 Puritan Board Junior

    The institutional church is by no means perfect. Lots of terrible things happening and lots of people getting hurt - what else do you expect from an organization made up of sinners? However, once this guy condemns and separates himself from institutional religion, I'd be curious to know where he plans on going.

    "He does not call God his Father, who does not call the Church his mother." - St. Cyprian.
     
  8. AThornquist

    AThornquist Puritan Board Doctor

    It's unfortunate that this trendy, non-traditional definition of 'religion' detracts from what is ultimately being meant. He is a talented brother who made this video with good intentions, but the truth he means to convey suffers from inaccuracies.
     
  9. steadfast7

    steadfast7 Puritan Board Junior

    On a positive note, though, I was alerted to this video from a coworker, who is an unbeliever. The video went viral on her facebook feeds, so it's a good opener to religious conversation. Praise God.
     
  10. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

  11. Semper Fidelis

    Semper Fidelis 2 Timothy 2:24-25 Staff Member

    False religion is the invention of idolatrous mind and, in his condemnation of some forms of idolatry, he has created his own. He makes statements throughout about how men ought to be treating neighbor and worshipping Christ and so makes statements about what is proper religion.

    He seems like a nice young man who is earnestly seeking the Truth but he needs some better mentors. Part of denying self is dealing with the realities of any group when sinners saved by grace start congregating. It's tempting to say that their problem is X but selflessness demands a religion that is not schismatic.
     
  12. Rufus

    Rufus Puritan Board Junior

    Didn't the revivalists of the 1910's-20's speak of getting back to "Old Time Religion"? Also didn't "having religion" mean something particularly years ago? (Both rhetorical questions)
     
  13. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable

    Stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really feel, brother. ;)

    I agree with you. I frequently run into the "Jesus hates religion" bit when encountering vitriolic open theists and anti-Calvinists who are quick to conclude anything but what they believe is "man made" or "philosophical". It is a well-worn canard that needs to be denounced.

    AMR
     
  14. Christusregnat

    Christusregnat Puritan Board Professor

    Francis Turretin, Institutes, 1:21.


    I think Turretin and Lactantius are on the right track here.
     
  15. JimmyH

    JimmyH Puritan Board Junior

    Since all true believers are, whether they know it or not, part of the body of Christ, it seems to me that if he really is of the elect, he is misguided. OTOH, I wonder if his passive/aggressive video isn't just self promotion. He begins with some very controversial statements which would make the viewer think he is an atheist and then goes on to proclaim his faith in Jesus Christ. His alleged faith is belied by his lumping all of the body of Christ into "religion" rather than specifying exactly which spoke of the wheel he is referring to. Just my take on it.
     
  16. Philip

    Philip Puritan Board Graduate

    Can I get someone to define "religion" here, in the old sense?
     
  17. Christusregnat

    Christusregnat Puritan Board Professor

    Turretin's citation of Lactantius seems to be on point for defining religion.
     
  18. gordo

    gordo Puritan Board Freshman

    Great post!
     
  19. JS116

    JS116 Puritan Board Freshman

    I think Louis Berkhof summarized religion in the best way here in the Introductory chapter of his book A Summery of Christian Doctrine



     
  20. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

    Paul, I am not mad at the kid. I have to admit that I find his confusion is rather distasteful and reeks of ignorance. This young man's rhetoric is bombastic and uneducated. Thus the reference to him being pompous. He is standing over the Church proclaiming anathema's but the very foundation he is starting from is so incorrect. He is acting as an authority on the issues he is discussing but his foundation and zealous reaction reminds me of the passage that "he has a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge." He is actually making Christianity look unintelligent. That along with his semi rap attitude and delivery just seems to be a bit overboard. So if you want to accuse me of being the third man in the room saying I am not like this pharisee, I would humbly appreciate you showing me what that really means. As you know I am not above being wrong and I believe you have corrected me before. I am open to correction and repentance when I am wrong.
     
  21. Jack K

    Jack K Puritan Board Professor

    "Religion" in the new sense (the sense understood by most non-PB folks in Western societies today) means doing your best to follow a set of principles that will win points with God or bring you some spiritual enlightenment. Understood that way—the way most people we know use the word most often today—Jesus is indeed against "religion." And it can be of great help to say this when explaining your faith to people.

    When we've had discussions about this here in the past, there've always been many who resist giving in to this definition of "religion." They want to preserve a better one. I can see their point. There've also been some who object to the idea that "Christianity is not religion" on the grounds that it smells antinomian or probably reflects shallow thinking of some sort. No doubt it does for some who use the line.

    But the importance of speaking to others about Christ in their language, the way they use it and understand it, should not be undervalued. Likewise, the importance of showing that faith in Christ must never be about winning points with God—that, in fact, it is the very opposite of this—cannot be overstressed. So I'm generally okay with the language that Jesus brought Good News, not "religion." I've used such lines myself (always explaining further what I mean).

    That said, the particular example in the link is probably not as well thought out or expressed as it should be.
     
  22. Philip

    Philip Puritan Board Graduate

    Jack, I think you've hit on the central confusion, which is that "religion" here doesn't necessarily mean what the Bible means when it uses the word. The ordinary use of the word has become exactly that which Christianity stands opposed to: works done to win points with God.
     
  23. JS116

    JS116 Puritan Board Freshman

    I really wasnt too upset about this video until this morning,then I saw the reaction from the people on all the networking sites.This guy really does not see what a mess he has gotten himself and others into...

    I praise God for the reformation and it the true reformed churches we have today for being faithful to God and his word standing against postmodernism.

    Nonetheless Jack you are right..it's just that this causing the wrong kind of uprising between christians and non christians ,all because he was careless with his words.

    ---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

    I feel alot better now..I think he goes to Mark Driscolls church,that explains alot.
     
  24. Pilgrim's Progeny

    Pilgrim's Progeny Puritan Board Sophomore

    :candle:

    Randy,

    I should be corrected by you here!(as I have in times past) I regret that I wrote in such a way as to make you think I was correcting you.

    Actually, I was comparing the speaker to a possible third man at the temple.

    I think you were pretty "spot on" in your comment.


    I hope that clears it up. And, thank you for giving me a chance to make this right, brother.


    Now, the anger I spoke of:

    This has more to do with my own experience, I can literally taste this rhetoric, as I have used similar. This way of speaking alienates so much of the body of Christ, and does more harm than good. Sadly, I know first hand.
     
  25. J. Dean

    J. Dean Puritan Board Junior

    I watched the video and commented directly on the site, echoing what most of you said: I like the thrust of the video, and the emphasis on grace in particular, but the author needs to be clear about what he means by "religion." If he means hypocrisy or external works righteousness, bravo and kudos to him. If he means churches that don't use services with rock music, emotionalism, or hyped up altar calls, then he's wrong and judgmental.
     
  26. athanatos

    athanatos Puritan Board Freshman

    I was going to post about this myself! Well, he's my video response
    [video=youtube;TZpxnT706pc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZpxnT706pc[/video]
     
  27. JS116

    JS116 Puritan Board Freshman

    The guy who made the video I guess is hearing the good and bad effects of his video.Here is what he wrote on Facebook today..


    I must admit,I was going back and forth for a while on how I should respond.Part of me said "He's totally wrong and ignorant about what true and false religion is and is misrepresenting Christianity!" another part or me was saying "I was once there,zealous for Jesus but no self-control with use of my tongue speaking on matters I knew little about about,he's wrong on some points but I can tell he does love God and he is a brother"..God has to work on me just as he has to work on this brother,maybe me even more.
     
  28. Philip

    Philip Puritan Board Graduate

    My hangup is not with his theology (which is actually very good) but his terminology. Calling the stuff he condemns "religion" is the problem. "Churchianity," "Sola Bootstrapsa," hypocrisy, all of these would be wonderful terms. My objection is not substantive but semantic.
     
  29. GulfCoast Presbyterian

    GulfCoast Presbyterian Puritan Board Junior

    Sola Bootstrapa! That's awesome. I am borrowing that one.
     
  30. RobertPGH1981

    RobertPGH1981 Puritan Board Freshman

    :ditto:

    I think this is what he had his mind on. Plus if you talk to non-christians that is probably how they would define religion. That is how all other "religions" outside of Christianity claim you can be accepted by God. I would say anything posted on YouTube would be for a secular audience. So when you do not define words and phrases you have to use how the world would define it.
     
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