RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
What was Harold Camping?
He was an amillennialist who kept predicting the end of the world.
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What was Harold Camping?
I’m guessing a non-optimistic amill?He was an amillennialist who kept predicting the end of the world.
I assume you are referring to his 1980 interview with Carl Henry - given not long before he died.I don't know how optimistic he was, since he told Carl F Henry he wasn't going to get too involved in culture since Israel was reinstated and the end times are probably near.
According to Robert Letham (see above), the two "camps" are really just one camp with different flavors.Martyn Lloyd-Jones held to an optimistic Amill view. This gives you the best of both worlds - the realism of Amillennialism, and the optimism of Postmillennialism. Surely it is safe to have your feet in both camps.
According to Robert Letham (see above), the two "camps" are really just one camp with different flavors.
That may be partly the point.I think it's an interesting time for anyone to be going postmil.
This observation is very interesting.That may be partly the point.
I feel like White has gotten more and more despondent about our current social climate, not without some cause.
I wonder if postmil, as well as theonomic leanings, may function for some as a coping mechanism -- a sort of brash defiance and fideistic optimism -- in response to our darkening times.
See my post above.Hey all, since the discussion is going on, I thought I would just ask here about the differences between Post Mill and Optimistic Amill. I see above, someone says it is the best of both worlds. Could someone set out the definitions? I somewhat tongue and cheek usually tell people I am post-amillennial. I am wondering if I am actually the later from above and just not use the correct label. Also, is Optimistic Amill the same thing as Idealism, or is that also something else?
Thank you for pointing that out, very helpful. Sorry for missing it. I guess I fall into the third category in his explanation.
That's where I am, too. (And, for what it's worth, that's where Letham himself lands.)Thank you for pointing that out, very helpful. Sorry for missing it. I guess I fall into the third category in his explanation.
There might be something to this, I dunno. I moved closer to Postmil since the scamdemic hit but I've also had more time to read and focus on scripture, and I've actually read more from the Postmil perspective. I don't see me moving away from Amil toward Postmil as a big shift and maybe Dr. White feels the same. The bigger shift for me was moving away from Historicism toward orthodox preterism, I'm struggling with the idea of "multiple embodiments" of Revelation.That may be partly the point.
I feel like White has gotten more and more despondent about our current social climate, not without some cause.
I wonder if postmil, as well as theonomic leanings, may function for some as a coping mechanism -- a sort of brash defiance and fideistic optimism -- in response to our darkening times.
“I'm struggling with the idea of "multiple embodiments" of Revelation.”There might be something to this, I dunno. I moved closer to Postmil since the scamdemic hit but I've also had more time to read and focus on scripture, and I've actually read more from the Postmil perspective. I don't see me moving away from Amil toward Postmil as a big shift and maybe Dr. White feels the same. The bigger shift for me was moving away from Historicism toward orthodox preterism, I'm struggling with the idea of "multiple embodiments" of Revelation.
Yours in the Lord,
jm
Yes, exactly.Why? Our eschatology is not determined by what we see around us, but by what we read in Scripture.
That may be partly the point.
I feel like White has gotten more and more despondent about our current social climate, not without some cause.
I wonder if postmil, as well as theonomic leanings, may function for some as a coping mechanism -- a sort of brash defiance and fideistic optimism -- in response to our darkening times.
This is certainly possible, but if it was about hanging out with someone, it was more likely the people at his own church. However, based on his explanation (the video), it does sound like he came to this conclusion by scripture. The whole conversation is going text to text.I wonder how much of White's view is from hanging out with Doug Wilson. I became postmil in 2004 because I hung out with the Auburn Avenue crowd. In order to not avoid fatal defeaters, preterists need to explain how they can conveniently call a halt to the "it was fulfilled in 70 AD" take on Revelation, yet not apply it to the entirety of chapter 20.
This is why traditional postmillennialism is much better. Mind you, I think they have problems with Matt 24, but at least they don't have a system that logically leads to a denial of the resurrection.
This is certainly possible, but if it was about hanging out with someone, it was more likely the people at his own church. However, based on his explanation (the video), it does sound like he came to this conclusion by scripture. The whole conversation is going text to text.
That's true, but Doug Wilson cleverly cornered the Reformed Baptist market on cultural issues, and if Durbin still goes to his church, that would make sense.
"If Durbin still goes to his church..."
Who is the "his" in the sentence above? Doug Wilson's church? (Jeff Durbin never went to Doug Wilson's church). Or James White's church? (Jeff Durbin never went to James White's church. Rather James White left PRBC to join Jeff Durbin's church).
Just as general info, Jeff Durbin has been a member and founding Pastor of Apologia Church for over a decade.
This may sound crazy but maybe, just maybe Dr. White was encouraged to reexamine his eschatology from his fellow Elders at Apologia and was convinced from scripture that Postmil is the correct view.
Or did James White lose to Jeff Durbin in a Mortal Kombat tourney?I got the impression people thought Dr. White's eschatology changed due to the influence of others (Wilson, Durbin, etc). I'm saying the influence of others got him to take another look at eschatology in light of scripture and he changed his views to be more in line with what he believes scripture teaches.
Yours in the Lord,
jm
This seems to me to be the most plausible scenario.Or did James White loose to Jeff Durbin in a Mortal Kombat tourney?