James VI and I, rejecting Frederick's bid for Bohemia

[Tom Hart]

C. V. Wedgewood, in her 1938 history of the Thirty Years War, mentions a curious moment that has me in my ignorance scratching my head. An ambassador of Frederick, Elector Palatine came in 1619 to James I, King of Great Britain, for support in Frederick's bid for the throne of Bohemia (Frederick was James's son-in-law).

Here is the excerpt.

When an ambassador was sent to obtain James's assistance, the King made it clear both in the King's English, which was Scots, and in three lines of Virgil that he would have nothing to do with Bohemia.

'O praestans animi juvenis, quantum ipse feroci
Virtute exsuperas, tanto me impensius aequum est
Prospicere, atque omnes volventem expendere casus'​

recited James, ingeniously misquoting the Aeneid.

C. V. Wedgwood, The Thirty Years War, 1938, p. 89​

Wedgewood provides a citation (Voigt, Des Grafen von Dohna Hofleben. Historisches Taschenbuch. Dritte Folge, pp. 127-8.) although it doesn't do me much good. To what passage in Virgil was James referring, and how did he "ingeniously misquote" it?

 

[Pergamum]

C. V. Wedgewood, in her 1938 history of the Thirty Years War, mentions a curious moment that has me in my ignorance scratching my head. An ambassador of Frederick, Elector Palatine came in 1619 to James I, King of Great Britain, for support in Frederick's bid for the throne of Bohemia (Frederick was James's son-in-law).

Here is the excerpt.

When an ambassador was sent to obtain James's assistance, the King made it clear both in the King's English, which was Scots, and in three lines of Virgil that he would have nothing to do with Bohemia.

'O praestans animi juvenis, quantum ipse feroci
Virtute exsuperas, tanto me impensius aequum est
Prospicere, atque omnes volventem expendere casus'​

recited James, ingeniously misquoting the Aeneid.

C. V. Wedgwood, The Thirty Years War, 1938, p. 89​

Wedgewood provides a citation (Voigt, Des Grafen von Dohna Hofleben. Historisches Taschenbuch. Dritte Folge, pp. 127-8.) although it doesn't do me much good. To what passage in Virgil was James referring, and how did he "ingeniously misquote" it?

I just reread the Aeneid (but in English, but it had notes on the Latin).

This passage is about the tragedy of Turnus in Virgil's Aeneid, 12: 18-53.

"...they hurled their spears from far; then in close fight
the brazen shields rang. Beneath their tread
Earth groaned aloud, as with redoubling blows
their falchions fell; nor could a mortal eye
'twixt chance and courage the dread work divide.
As o'er Taburnus' top, or spacious hills
of Sila, in relentless shock of war,
two bulls rush brow to brow, while terror-pale
the herdsmen fly; the herd is hushed with fear;
the heifers dumbly marvel which shall be
true monarch of the grove, whom all the kine
obedient follow; but the rival twain,
commingling mightily wound after wound,
thrust with opposing horns, and bathe their necks
in streams of blood; the forest far and wide
repeats their bellowing rage: not otherwise
Trojan Aeneas and King Daunus' son
clashed shield on shield, till all the vaulted sky
felt the tremendous sound. The hand of Jove
held scales in equipoise, and threw thereon
th' unequal fortunes of the heroes twain:
one to vast labors doomed and one to die."

In this section, Aeneas and Turnas fight to the death for the kingdom and Turnus is killed.

My thinking is that Frederick was going to be king of Bohemia and war was going to happen and Frederick (related by marriage. Elizabeth was King James's daugher?) was wanting help. King James basically told him he was just going to watch and see how things would turn out. He uses "prospicire" and "volventem" instead of the words "consulere" and "metuentem" in the original, meaning he would "watch from a distance" and "think about" rather than "counsel" and "fear" for the fate of the man. A clever way of refusing help. Sounds kind of insulting, to be honest, and I don't get the nuances, but then again, I don't know Latin but only use the lexicons when trying to get the nuances of Virgil.

Line 19 in the original:

"consulere atque omnis metuentem expendere casus."

consulo, consulere, consului, consultusask information/advice of; consult, take counsel; deliberate/consider; advise
atqueand, as well/soon as; together with; and moreover/even; and too/also/now; yet
metuo, metuere, metui, -fear; be afraid; stand in fear of; be apprehensive, dread
expendo, expendere, expendi, expensuspay; pay out; weigh, judge; pay a penalty
casus, casus Mfall, overthrow; chance/fortune; accident, emergency, calamity, plight; fate

Here is the site I used: https://nodictionaries.com/vergil/aeneid-12/18-53

p.s. the Wedgewood book is one of the absolutely most boring books I have ever read. I couldn't make it through.

 

[Tom Hart]

I just reread the Aeneid (but in English, but it had notes on the Latin).

This passage is about the tragedy of Turnus in Virgil's Aeneid, 12: 18-53.

"...they hurled their spears from far; then in close fight
the brazen shields rang. Beneath their tread
Earth groaned aloud, as with redoubling blows
their falchions fell; nor could a mortal eye
'twixt chance and courage the dread work divide.
As o'er Taburnus' top, or spacious hills
of Sila, in relentless shock of war,
two bulls rush brow to brow, while terror-pale
the herdsmen fly; the herd is hushed with fear;
the heifers dumbly marvel which shall be
true monarch of the grove, whom all the kine
obedient follow; but the rival twain,
commingling mightily wound after wound,
thrust with opposing horns, and bathe their necks
in streams of blood; the forest far and wide
repeats their bellowing rage: not otherwise
Trojan Aeneas and King Daunus' son
clashed shield on shield, till all the vaulted sky
felt the tremendous sound. The hand of Jove
held scales in equipoise, and threw thereon
th' unequal fortunes of the heroes twain:
one to vast labors doomed and one to die."

In this section, Aeneas and Turnas fight to the death for the kingdom and Turnus is killed.

My thinking is that Frederick was going to be king of Bohemia and war was going to happen and Frederick (related by marriage. Elizabeth was King James's daugher?) was wanting help. King James basically told him he was just going to watch and see how things would turn out. He uses "prospicire" and "volventem" instead of the words "consulere" and "metuentem" in the original, meaning he would "watch from a distance" and "think about" rather than "counsel" and "fear" for the fate of the man. A clever way of refusing help. Sounds kind of insulting, to be honest, and I don't get the nuances, but then again, I don't know Latin but only use the lexicons when trying to get the nuances of Virgil.

Line 19 in the original:

"consulere atque omnis metuentem expendere casus."

consulo, consulere, consului, consultusask information/advice of; consult, take counsel; deliberate/consider; advise
atqueand, as well/soon as; together with; and moreover/even; and too/also/now; yet
metuo, metuere, metui, -fear; be afraid; stand in fear of; be apprehensive, dread
expendo, expendere, expendi, expensuspay; pay out; weigh, judge; pay a penalty
casus, casus Mfall, overthrow; chance/fortune; accident, emergency, calamity, plight; fate

Here is the site I used: https://nodictionaries.com/vergil/aeneid-12/18-53

Thanks so much for this! Brilliant stuff.

p.s. the Wedgewood book is one of the absolutely most boring books I have ever read. I couldn't make it through.

I'm enjoying it. It's not a perfect book. I am disappointed by the author's failure to understand different doctrines -- she throws in far too much personal judgment here. And the reader tires of her constant negative portrayals of historical figures. But I find the book enjoyable overall, and very valuable as a history of the period.

 

[Tom Hart]

"...they hurled their spears from far; then in close fight
the brazen shields rang. Beneath their tread
Earth groaned aloud, as with redoubling blows
their falchions fell; nor could a mortal eye
'twixt chance and courage the dread work divide.
As o'er Taburnus' top, or spacious hills
of Sila, in relentless shock of war,
two bulls rush brow to brow, while terror-pale
the herdsmen fly; the herd is hushed with fear;
the heifers dumbly marvel which shall be
true monarch of the grove, whom all the kine
obedient follow; but the rival twain,
commingling mightily wound after wound,
thrust with opposing horns, and bathe their necks
in streams of blood; the forest far and wide
repeats their bellowing rage: not otherwise
Trojan Aeneas and King Daunus' son
clashed shield on shield, till all the vaulted sky
felt the tremendous sound. The hand of Jove
held scales in equipoise, and threw thereon
th' unequal fortunes of the heroes twain:
one to vast labors doomed and one to die."

May I ask what translation this is?

 

[Pergamum]

May I ask what translation this is?

P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid
Theodore C. Williams, Ed.

Found online here: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:abo:phi,0690,003:12:707