J Vernon McGee Warns Christians of the Cult of Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & The Doctrines of Grace' started by brandonadams, Feb 5, 2009.

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  1. brandonadams

    brandonadams Puritan Board Freshman

    Since my ipod was stolen, I've been listening to J. Vernon McGee's through the Bible program on the radio. He started Ecclesiastes this week.

    He was discussing chapter 2 and the vanity of toil. He started talking about some people out there who are fatalists, who believe everything is predetermined.

    Ecclesiastes 2:11--3:1 (MP3)

    @ 14:50 in the link below he says:
    @ 24:00 He starts lumping those who emphasize the doctrine of election together with materialistic humanism and Islam.

    It's rather strange to hear him say these things. Just the absurdity of what he is saying combined with his unique, confident delivery.
     
  2. Iakobos_1071

    Iakobos_1071 Puritan Board Freshman

    wow... Some people like to throw around words they do not know the meaning of. like fatalism. Also some people don't want to let go and feel more secure in having control of their own lives. Predestination and fatalism are different. Things are going to happen the way they happen no matter what is FATE, God designing everything and its trajectory from before the world began is Predestination, God foreknew, and designed everything..

    There is way more to it than that as well...
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  3. Southern Presbyterian

    Southern Presbyterian Moderator Staff Member

    I believe that Rev. McGee would hold a different opinion today. ;)
     
  4. Anton Bruckner

    Anton Bruckner Puritan Board Professor

    the man was a presbyterian then left the flock. he is like jerry falwell who was a calvinist who left the flock for arminianism, christian zionism and the moral majority nonsense. all miserable failures that unleashed the tyranny of republican big government.
     
  5. Semper Fidelis

    Semper Fidelis 2 Timothy 2:24-25 Staff Member

    I used to constantly have Christian radio on in my car when I lived in Quantico from 96-99. It was always tuned to 105.1. His show came on every morning at 0530 and I would rush to the dial to turn the radio before I had to hear the intro music. This was before I was a calvinist. That fellow's voice just drove me up the wall. I know it's not a very holy observation but I just never cared for his show.
     
  6. Rangerus

    Rangerus Puritan Board Junior

    I've listened to him off and on for a couple of years (because he was originally from Texas and because he goes through the Bible pretty well.) However I believe he holds (held) very firmly to the dispensationalist point of view.
     
  7. Semper Fidelis

    Semper Fidelis 2 Timothy 2:24-25 Staff Member

    If you consider a death grip to be firm then I would agree with that assessment.
     
  8. Scott1

    Scott1 Puritan Board Doctor

    Dr McGee has been deceased now for many years. His ministry certainly has been used by God. He was a dear Christian brother, right about many things, and wrong about some.

    If you would like to understand "broad evangelicalism" then and now, particularly "fundamentalism" listening to him can be helpful because he articulates something like a a 3 of 5 point Calvinism (Arminian influenced), (which is logically and biblically "muddled up"), dispensationalism, a "low' view of the church, and a "low" view of the sacraments. Like many today, he knows a few standard objections to reformed theology, but he does not understand it.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Puritan Board Junior

    While we can be thankful if God has used people like DR.Mcgee, it should be noted that some men trying to hard, to be acceptable to men, become a bit too "folksy" trying to be humorous ,or easy to listen to. Truth moves to second place, or somehow obscured , and they lose the smile of God.
    Hopefully his heart motive is not double-minded. This is the day we live in.
    Some are in danger of doctrinal compromise becoming weak and pragmatic in their public ministry. We can be thankful to be in confessional churches seeking to follow the word alone,rather than public opinion polls.:gpl:
     
  10. MrMerlin777

    MrMerlin777 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Never was much into J.V. Mcgee.
     
  11. Marrow Man

    Marrow Man Drunk with Powder

    Wasn't McGee the one who once said (when putting forth his premillennial dispensationalism) that you "don't polish brass on a sinking ship." In other words, Christians don't need to really do anything b/c Jesus is coming back any moment now to take us all home. Pure garbage. That's not the most destructive sort of teaching in the world, but it's probably in the top ten.
     
  12. discipulo

    discipulo Puritan Board Junior

    Probably would never cross the mind of that gentleman, that the most lucid critic and denouncer of Fatalism was a strong Calvinist,
    B. B. Warfield.

    quote

    That is the difference between Fate and Predestination. And all the language of men cannot tell the immensity of the difference.

    WHAT FATALISM IS by B.B. Warfield
     
  13. Scott1

    Scott1 Puritan Board Doctor

    I can only say that I have come to understand this view comes from modern dispensational premillennialism. Mr. McGee reflected that theology (dispensationalism) and it has helped me to clarify its error because he so forthrightly advocated it (without systematic biblical theology to back it up).

    But in the end, Mr. McGee led a lot of people to the Lord. He Pastored faithfully a large church in the Los Angeles church and he has discipled many by radio- at least aquainting them with the Gospel and some of the counsel of God's Word. Not defending everything he taught, only acknowledging, charitably, that God indeed did things through his life.

    He had a slow, east Texas drawl. That's not a bad thing in my book, but for some it is hard to get used to!
     
  14. Grymir

    Grymir Puritan Board Graduate

    Having spent 20 yrs in Texas, I found his show to be pretty enjoyable to listen to. Yes, he's a Dispensational, but he does a good job with the historical stuff, and when he would wax eloquent against the hippies and liberals, he could be a riot! He had a charming personality that would just draw one in.
     
  15. Jon Lake

    Jon Lake Puritan Board Sophomore

    When I saw this thread I thought, WOW I thought McGee had passed on. I used to have the through the Bible books years ago. I agree with the above post, in many Basic areas (meaning a topical overview of the Bible), it was useful as younger Christian, he helped me get a grasp of the "general" lay of the Bible, for that, I am thankful, and with the above post I understand he was a well loved and kind man, who was right in a number of areas and wrong in others. (He helped me learn to "like" Books like Leviticus and Numbers by walking through and pointing to Christ.:2cents:
     
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