Spinningplates2
Puritan Board Freshman
Egypt, Assyria and Isreal all together as God's Glory. I know as a postmil what I think of this verse but and wondering what amil's and dispen's think of this.
Isaiah 19:24 God calls Egypt, "My people"
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TeachingTulip
Puritan Board Sophomore
It is my understanding that Isaiah predicts a future salvation of Gentiles as well as Jews; an elect remnant shall be saved out of all the nations. (Rev. 5:9; 7:9) during the period between the first coming of Christ and His return.
(I am an Amillennialist.)
So far as redemptive history is concerned, the situation of God's people pre-Messiah is a national setting; therefore the prophets consistently express the enemies of God's people in national terms. But a time is predicted when God's "nation" will no longer be surrounded by "hostile nations." In fact, God will be calling the heathen into his kingdom in droves.
The fact is this promise of calling the nations into the church was inaugurally fulfilled on Pentecost, and the outworking of Christ's reign has been continued in the ongoing missionary enterprise of the church. In the absence of a "national-people-of-God," those prophetic expressions are properly understood not as divisions of the church, but as secular bodies which are providing the elect material for the one kingdom of Christ.
We simply need to recognize how the prophetic language of the Old Testament, geared toward explaining the promise of the coming age (NT) to the cultural setting of Israel, the national church, is fulfilled in a trans-national setting--indeed, an eschatological setting, where the "kingdomS of this world" become the Kingdom (singular) of our Lord and of his Christ.
The fact is this promise of calling the nations into the church was inaugurally fulfilled on Pentecost, and the outworking of Christ's reign has been continued in the ongoing missionary enterprise of the church. In the absence of a "national-people-of-God," those prophetic expressions are properly understood not as divisions of the church, but as secular bodies which are providing the elect material for the one kingdom of Christ.
We simply need to recognize how the prophetic language of the Old Testament, geared toward explaining the promise of the coming age (NT) to the cultural setting of Israel, the national church, is fulfilled in a trans-national setting--indeed, an eschatological setting, where the "kingdomS of this world" become the Kingdom (singular) of our Lord and of his Christ.
TeachingTulip
Puritan Board Sophomore
Rev. Buchanan's response relating Isa. 19:24 to Christ's kingdom, made me think of another Scripture passage that describes His heavenly kingdom, thusly:
"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." Rev. 21:23-24
"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." Rev. 21:23-24
Poimen
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Well said brother.
Spinningplates2
Puritan Board Freshman
Sorry but from the context of these scriptures, I don't see how you see it as Isaiah simply talking about Pentecost. God is calling Egypt, "My people" on a seemingly equal share with Israel and Assyria. In the context is does not seem to speaking of the future Kingdom in Heaven. This seems a little specific to be referring to all the gentile nations.
Iconoclast
Puritan Board Junior
Hello Alan,
What do you make of the language of verses 20-21? In that day,and will make sacrifice and offering? Would Hebrews 13:10-16 , fit if indeed this was looking forward to post pentacost times? I am in between a post/and amill position,
What do you make of the language of verses 20-21? In that day,and will make sacrifice and offering? Would Hebrews 13:10-16 , fit if indeed this was looking forward to post pentacost times? I am in between a post/and amill position,
Alan,
There is NO Assyria today, nor would any future Assyria have the slightest relation to a previous national entity. (For what it's worth, Syria and Assyria were two completely different entities in the ancient world).
So, any argument for "Egypt" being the specific people or nationality compels the same commitment to a non-existent corporation on the opposite geographical location to Israel.
Then there is the description "Israel". Are we talking about a national body? Obviously Ezekiel had an OT conception of Israel--a national identity, living on a strip of land in the M.E. But in the NC age, there is no geography or boundary to the people of God.
If Israel is ultimately non-ethnic in this passage, why would we insist on Egypt (a land which populace has a completely different ethnic composition to the Egyptians-of-old) and Assyria (a land and people who have no existence whatsoever anymore) being physical identities?
There is NO Assyria today, nor would any future Assyria have the slightest relation to a previous national entity. (For what it's worth, Syria and Assyria were two completely different entities in the ancient world).
So, any argument for "Egypt" being the specific people or nationality compels the same commitment to a non-existent corporation on the opposite geographical location to Israel.
Then there is the description "Israel". Are we talking about a national body? Obviously Ezekiel had an OT conception of Israel--a national identity, living on a strip of land in the M.E. But in the NC age, there is no geography or boundary to the people of God.
If Israel is ultimately non-ethnic in this passage, why would we insist on Egypt (a land which populace has a completely different ethnic composition to the Egyptians-of-old) and Assyria (a land and people who have no existence whatsoever anymore) being physical identities?
Spinningplates2
Puritan Board Freshman
There was no Israel (physically) 60 years ago either.
The modern state of Israel is no more important to the purposes of God for the world until the end of time than Tonga. Or, to put it more positively, Tonga has as much to do with God's overall purposes in the world as the present day Israeli State.
Neither of them have any mention in the pages of Scripture, and their populations have perfectly equal relative merit to God.
Neither of them have any mention in the pages of Scripture, and their populations have perfectly equal relative merit to God.
YXU
Puritan Board Freshman
Not only will there be a future salvation of the Gentiles. There will also be two things which convince me about a future restoration of true religion and worship.
The Egyptians will speak the language of Canaan and swear in the name of God, which signifies the purity of worship. The second thing is that out of 6 cities, 5 will be Christians and worship God, only 1 will be called the city of destruction. Which means the majority (84%, but I think here it should not be literal) of the people will be Christians.
Spinningplates2
Puritan Board Freshman
I think that we will have to end this as I do not see this ending well. I agree with you about the country in the Middle East called Israel, that they are not the same country as the one spoken of in the OT. I still see the language be used, calling Egypt, "My People" to be something special, and some do not. I am not able to argue this well enough.
Peairtach
Puritan Board Doctor
Some who have held to the belief that the Church both Jewish and Gentile replaces ethnic Israel as the Israel of God and therefore inherits the promises and prophecies, still see adumbrations of the restoration of ethnic Israel to faith in some of the Old Testament prophecies.
If the Jews are to be restored to faith as is indicated in Romans 11, that will be part of church history. That may be predicted in the OT.
The fulfillment of prophecies associated with the First Advent, wasn't always spiritual, but physical, or a combination of both.
I haven't yet read this paper on Old Testament prophecy, so I don't know what position Christopher J.H. Wright takes, but he is an able scolar and it should provide food for thought.
http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/jerusalem_wright.pdf
If the Jews are to be restored to faith as is indicated in Romans 11, that will be part of church history. That may be predicted in the OT.
The fulfillment of prophecies associated with the First Advent, wasn't always spiritual, but physical, or a combination of both.
I haven't yet read this paper on Old Testament prophecy, so I don't know what position Christopher J.H. Wright takes, but he is an able scolar and it should provide food for thought.
http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/jerusalem_wright.pdf
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