Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Yes, exaggerated details.......he really doesn't steal and eat babieS...it was just that one baby that one time........
No, but he does suggest "stealing and eating" the congregations into his movement. I was part of a SBC congregation that went PD then NAR. It was ugly.
Can you give me proof?
I know that many megachurches swell in number due to "transfer growth" (i.e. lateral movement of church attendees from one church to another) rather than "new gowth" (reaching the unchurched, and servicing those not serviced by others) but this is rarely their intention. Usually their intention is not to steal other people's "sheep" (using the term loosely) but to reached those remaining unchurched people in a community.
It is one thing to report that such things are happening, and quite another (which needs further proof) to show that this was Rick Warren's intention from the outset.
You missed my point. I am talking about an existing congregation that gets taken over by the PD movement way of operating. The congregation I was in had ~ 200 members when PDC started becoming the focus. After about 2 years, when I was given the boot, it was down to 18. I was marginalized and villified because I had the audacity to question the pastor. When he saw that I stood in the way of him taking over, with absolute authority, he had some people lock the doors on Sunday AM and had the police on speed dial to have me arrested if I set foot on HIS PROPERTY (the meetinghouse).
Also, people have started out using Warren's methods , but they modify them to build their own little kingdoms. Some people have started out using his methods & literature, then switch to something else from charismania. When the power and spotlight go to their heads, the result is what I mentioned happening above. It goes cultic and off of the deep end. Pergamum, if we ever meet, ask me about the chiropractor and I'll tell you the whole story. You will find it hard to believe.
They train Mormons? Seriously?
Hi:Yes, exaggerated details.......he really doesn't steal and eat babieS...it was just that one baby that one time........
No, but he does suggest "stealing and eating" the congregations into his movement. I was part of a SBC congregation that went PD then NAR. It was ugly.
Can you give me proof?
I know that many megachurches swell in number due to "transfer growth" (i.e. lateral movement of church attendees from one church to another) rather than "new gowth" (reaching the unchurched, and servicing those not serviced by others) but this is rarely their intention. Usually their intention is not to steal other people's "sheep" (using the term loosely) but to reached those remaining unchurched people in a community.
It is one thing to report that such things are happening, and quite another (which needs further proof) to show that this was Rick Warren's intention from the outset.
You missed my point. I am talking about an existing congregation that gets taken over by the PD movement way of operating. The congregation I was in had ~ 200 members when PDC started becoming the focus. After about 2 years, when I was given the boot, it was down to 18. I was marginalized and villified because I had the audacity to question the pastor. When he saw that I stood in the way of him taking over, with absolute authority, he had some people lock the doors on Sunday AM and had the police on speed dial to have me arrested if I set foot on HIS PROPERTY (the meetinghouse).
Also, people have started out using Warren's methods , but they modify them to build their own little kingdoms. Some people have started out using his methods & literature, then switch to something else from charismania. When the power and spotlight go to their heads, the result is what I mentioned happening above. It goes cultic and off of the deep end. Pergamum, if we ever meet, ask me about the chiropractor and I'll tell you the whole story. You will find it hard to believe.
They train Mormons? Seriously?
Hello Lynnie:
Yes, here is a quote from an article praising Rick Warren:
You will find the quote here: USATODAY.com - This evangelist has a 'Purpose'Yet Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women.
Blessings,
Rob
Warren is part of the ultra-conservative Southern Baptist Convention, and all his senior staff sign on to the SBC's doctrines, such as the literal and infallible Bible and exclusion of women as senior pastors. Yet Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women.
Anybody have Warren's exact words on this?
Here is an interview in USAToday in which he acknowledged so - Here is the relevant extract:
Warren is part of the ultra-conservative Southern Baptist Convention, and all his senior staff sign on to the SBC's doctrines, such as the literal and infallible Bible and exclusion of women as senior pastors. Yet Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women.
"I'm not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won't try to change other denominations. Why be divisive?" he asks, citing as his model Billy Graham, "a statesman for Christ ministering across barriers."
Hi Jack:
Certainly we should have charity in our hearts to all people, and we are not to judge whether a man is going to heaven or hell. However, Jesus does say that, "You will know them by their fruits." And the testimony of hundreds of people, and the division and destruction of many churches stemming from the policies of Rick Warren are not things to be charitably ignored. Consider the lives of those who have been demonized, demeaned, and destroyed as a result of PDC policies? Reread the original post and ask yourself if this is the Christian way - or even the way of charity? At the least the church growth program that Rick Warren is advocating is not Reformed and is grossly unbiblical. What would you expect the results to be of something that is so contrary to God's revealed will. Those of you who have been blessed by not attending one of these churches, or a church that has been influenced by the PDC, then what I am pointing out may seem uncharitable to you. I will therefore post this video clip (which has some very raw footage) for you to ponder if this criticism is truly uncharitable. The video is a typical worship service at New Spring Church in South Carolina. The quotation at the end by Puritan John Flavel is very appropriate:
However, I know of real live people who have been demonized by this ministry, and churches have been destroyed by the worldly acts of PDC.
Hi Jack:
I do not think that you have been reading this thread correctly. I would agree with you that one is not to use an article - or even a tract - as a means of criticizing a ministry. However, I know of real live people who have been demonized by this ministry, and churches have been destroyed by the worldly acts of PDC. You can read some of the testimonies above, or, look up for yourself the effects of Pragmatic models in church ministries.
To make the statement you made is not realistic in light of the posts on this thread.
Blessings,
Rob
NAR? Sorry, I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.I was part of a SBC congregation that went PD then NAR. It was ugly.
NAR? Sorry, I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.I was part of a SBC congregation that went PD then NAR. It was ugly.