Is The Tithe For Today?

[DonP]

It brings them under fundamentalism if they do not see it as a means of salvation. It keeps them from seeking to walk in faith by the Spirit and to develop a conscience before go and have their desires conformed to the image of Christ. It substitutes a simple rule for a person seeking the Spirit and a walk of faith.

Anyone who seeks tithing as a means of salvation is an idiot. I've never met anyone like that. There are two erroneous caricatures: one that portrays a tither as checking off a list's item that sanctifies him, and the anti-tither who gives a little and cries "grace" to justify it. Both are just that: caricatures.

By saying fundamentalism it is not meant doing it for salvation, (legalism). Not even necessarily as a check off "to be" sanctified.

But it is a rule substituted for an area of conscience that God has left under Christian liberty so that we would seek Him, seek to be convinced by the Spirit. It always seems so strange to me that this is such a foreign concept to so many Christians and yet I remember my earlier years where it was the same for me. I wanted to know exactly how to do each thing so I could feel like I was obedient and pleasing God doing everything right. But god has left us with areas of conscience or liberty where we are not to make a rule for us or for others. We each seek what God wants from us, and do through us. Giving is one of these, like what job to take, how much time to spend in service to others and how much at home etc. There is no right wrong on these. We must seek to be convinced by the Spirit.

We must develop an ear from the still small voice of the Spirit. We must not quench the Spirit. We must learn to walk in and by the Spirit.

We should all accept one another's differences of conscience and still have unity without needing to all follow the same rule or judge each other by how we do things or judge ourselves by comparing how we do to others.
God works through people differently and sanctifies them differently and thorough different processes, and times.

To make a rule where one does not exist gives and easy out for someone having to develop a conscience and learn to walk by faith not by rules. To be willing to seek God and change their convictions etc.

As I have suggested many times Whitfield, who was raised in a system of, we do these things this way to follow Christ, said, I had not known what true religion was until I read this book, referring to Scougal's work, The Life of God in the Soul of Man.
This tendency I think is common to most of us and we would do well to learn the same lesson.
We should not put ourselves back under rules where there is not one prescribed
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. NKJV
meaning rules like were in the OT

 

[JoeRe4mer]

I often hear people say things like "the tithe isn't for today."

Every now and then it will be wrapped within the admittedly pious language of "since the New Covenant is so much better than the Old, the percentage should be so much higher!" Ok, and there are a handful of folks I know who give well above 10%. Heck, one man I know lives on 25% of his pay... the rest is given.

HOWEVER... Generally speaking...

I'm convinced that many of the folks who argue against the tithe as being obligatory do so because they want to justify their stinginess.

Common brother, tell us what you really think! LOL In all seriousness I agree with you point.

 

[OPC'n]

We should tithe/give.....our money, time, gifts etc. Why place a number on it? Let's be free to give freely.

 

[TomVols]

PeaceMaker and Glenn make interesting points and are appreciated. I still think there are hermeneutical issues with both the anti-tithing crowd and the tithing proponents. I am still convinced that subjectivity, strawmen, caricatures, and sweeping generalizations are always dangerous.

Thanks!

 

[DonP]

PeaceMaker and Glenn make interesting points and are appreciated. I still think there are hermeneutical issues with both the anti-tithing crowd and the tithing proponents. I am still convinced that subjectivity, strawmen, caricatures, and sweeping generalizations are always dangerous.

Thanks!

Could you point out where those were made, rather than making a sweeping generalization?

 

[TomVols]

Well, I could. But I already have to a large extent. Why would I want to sit here and rehash what has been rehashed? I have much to critique within both the pro-tithing and anti-tithing camps, and have done so. I really don't see why I should do it again. My statement above was meant as a summary, not an invitation to go in circles. But if you must....I suppose I will.

I fear you misunderstood. I am genuine in my appreciation for your and Glenn's contributions from the anti crowd. Helpful as I evaulate my critique of both positions and establish my own.

 

[DonP]

Well, I could. But I already have to a large extent. Why would I want to sit here and rehash what has been rehashed? I have much to critique within both the pro-tithing and anti-tithing camps, and have done so. I really don't see why I should do it again. My statement above was meant as a summary, not an invitation to go in circles. But if you must....I suppose I will.

I fear you misunderstood. I am genuine in my appreciation for your and Glenn's contributions from the anti crowd. Helpful as I evaulate my critique of both positions and establish my own.

Maybe I did misunderstand. I only remembered you asking the question of how one could respond to objections of tithers, and I tried to give some possible responses that I thought would help one answer someone who raises those objections.

So I was wondering what things in the post you thought were sweeping generalizations, if that was me or someone else.

If I had done that I wanted to know so I could be aware of it and seek to correct it.

I do tend to take this a bit more casually as conversation with friends than as a theological article or debate.

Maybe I am to casual here? I just love learning, being challenged to explain better and get corrected and to share with others what I have learned.

 

[TomVols]

Glenn, PuritanPilgrim, and some others referred to Deut 14:22-23 as a lynchpin against tithing. So I ask this in all humility and eagerness to learn: how would you preach this today? What is the application for the Christian today? I'm very curious.

So I was wondering what things in the post you thought were sweeping generalizations, if that was me or someone else.

I think I've already pointed those out. Some say tithers are just legalists. Some tithers say the anti-tithers are stingy and just don't want to give anything. To be sure, I've met both. But to say all[/I]are like this is unfair.

If you want a specific from your quotes, I cringe whenever I hear "Just obey the Spirit's voice.." This often is used, especially in my appalachian context, to appeal to a revelatory subjectivity that is in opposition to absolute truth of Holy Scripture. I'm not saying you're doing that, I'm just saying it evokes a visceral red flag.

I do tend to take this a bit more casually as conversation with friends than as a theological article or debate.

At times I got the opposite impression

Maybe I am to casual here? I just love learning, being challenged to explain better and get corrected and to share with others what I have learned.

Me too. I also (in this area) am looking to fine tune my position. I legitimately have beefs with both sides. So I come with no agenda save for learning so I may grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus, correctly handling the word of truth, so that this man of God may be complete and totally furnished for every good deed.

 

[puritanpilgrim]

Glenn, PuritanPilgrim, and some others referred to Deut 14:22-23 as a lynchpin against tithing. So I ask this in all humility and eagerness to learn: how would you preach this today? What is the application for the Christian today? I'm very curious.

God is holy, and we are not. Do what he says.

It's the same way I would preach through Leviticus, with all of the measurements, jobs assigned to certain people, only to be done a certain way.

-----Added 5/8/2009 at 08:42:04 EST-----

We should tithe/give.....our money, time, gifts etc. Why place a number on it? Let's be free to give freely.

Because we feel like we did it. We like a visible plumbline.

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

Glenn, PuritanPilgrim, and some others referred to Deut 14:22-23 as a lynchpin against tithing. So I ask this in all humility and eagerness to learn: how would you preach this today? What is the application for the Christian today? I'm very curious.

I'd preach on this passage by emphasizing "...that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always." The tithe of the passage is pointing out that the people of Israel are “sharecroppers” on the land God has given him. Part of the increase given to the Levites (who possessed none of the divided tribal land) was representative of God’s ownership of all, and their continued tenure on the land was by his gift and grace. Much here that can be said about grace, dependence upon God, his lordship, our stewardship, and provision for the ministry of the word.

But, one can’t go beyond what this passage requires, a tithe (one tenth) of the increase of soil and flocks in the promised land to be given to Levites. It says nothing about general income from wages or trade, the produce of land not part of the tribal land division, or a replacement ministry for the Levites. Then, other passages speak of at least two other tithes; and, tithes were for the support of the ministry, relief of the destitute, and celebration of the Jerusalem feasts, not buildings and programs.

Certainly, the principles behind tithing, sacrifices, and offerings in the Old Testament, and all the New Testament teaches about giving requires generous, sacrificial, intentional, prioritized, proportional, and cheerful giving for adequate provision for the ministry of the word (pastors, ministers, evangelists and missionaries) and relief of the destitute. God’s Holy Spirit filled people will display their gift of giving as fruit of God’s grace.

So I was wondering what things in the post you thought were sweeping generalizations, if that was me or someone else.

I think I've already pointed those out. Some say tithers are just legalists. Some tithers say the anti-tithers are stingy and just don't want to give anything. To be sure, I've met both. But to say all[/I]are like this is unfair.

I’ve certainly not said or implied those who tithe or teach tithing are “legalists.” They are just mistaken, probably sincerely so, in their application of the Old Testament tithing texts. My concerns are in regard to the hermeneutics and application; that we do not force God’s word to say more or less than it does. We may not require more than God does, in the way he commands it.

It is interesting much of the evangelical church generally emphasizes the modern application of the tithe, which is clearly ceremonial law, but neglects the fourth commandment and the regulative principle of worship in general.

One post above seems to simply equate tithing with giving. Tithing is using ten percent of something for a special designated purpose. Giving of less than ten percent is not tithing. Saying the Old Testament tithing passages can’t be applied directly to situations outside of the promised land, is not to oppose generous giving to support the work of Christ’s church.

PeaceMaker and Glenn make interesting points and are appreciated. I still think there are hermeneutical issues with both the anti-tithing crowd and the tithing proponents. I am still convinced that subjectivity, strawmen, caricatures, and sweeping generalizations are always dangerous.

Certainly, "subjectivity, strawmen, caricatures, and sweeping generalizatiosn are always dangerous." So why use such here?

If any of these have been used above, point them out rather than making a subjective, unsupported, sweeping generalization about "hermeneutical issues." That is neither helpful nor meaningful.

 

[Robert Truelove]

The 'tithe' as under the Mosaic law is not binding as it was specific to the national state of Israel under the Old Covenant. However, the concept of giving a tithe to God predates the Mosaic Economy.

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek. The high priest according to whom Christ's priesthood is reckoned.

Also, Levi is said to have paid tithes through Abraham...

"One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him." Hebrews 7:9&10

Jacob before this said...

"And of all that you give me I will give a full tenth to you." Genesis 28:22

What I see in the tithe as it applies to today is not the legal obligation of the Mosaic Covenant, but a principle. When people are looking for a good biblical minimum, the number that keeps coming up is 10%.

 

[TheFleshProfitethNothing]

I, personally would find it HYPOCRITICAL, for anyone on this Board, to think INSTRUMENTS cannot be used in worship, and then turn around and say the TITHE is for the Christian...

What sayest thou to this?

 

[KMK]

I, personally would find it HYPOCRITICAL, for anyone on this Board, to think INSTRUMENTS cannot be used in worship, and then turn around and say the TITHE is for the Christian...

What sayest thou to this?

What do you mean by "the tithe is for the Christian?"

 

[TheFleshProfitethNothing]

KMK...I mean, that if one would NOT use Insturments in Temple Worship, because it was instituted as part of Temple Worship, then one should NOT insist on paying TITHES as part of a LEGAL Ordinance.

When Abraham gave a Tenth of the spoils, it was out of Thanks Giving and not because God Commanded it...and NO ONE will convince me otherwise.

Sincerely, I would say, that Under the Torah (Commandments and Oridinances one would give more like 28-32%)

That's all...

 

[TheFleshProfitethNothing]

I have read my last couple of posts, and would like to mention that the Tithe for the Christian statement DOES NOT mean, it is FOR the Christian (though it could not possibley be agaisnst them) because God has need of NOTHING.

What was meant is simpley "it is not for the Christian to pay a tenth"; though if the Christians conscience leads to that, it would not be sin...it would simpley be giving...would it not?

So, with that said, I would not stop ANY Christian for giving a tenth, but would certainly not stop one for giving MORE... for Grace gives more.

Also, giving to the Lord under Christ's commanments, is as simple as giving food, drink, clothing, and love...visting those in prison and widows...

How much of that is preached on Sunday's? Not much I suspect, being so many fail to do those particular commands...even MYSELF. It seems it is very easy to reach into the wallet, or check book so others can do it, but is that actually ENOUGH? Is giving a tenth enough????!!! And what is a tenth? of spoils?? of income?? Or ALL that GOD has given you?