Is the New Covenant equal to the Covenant of Grace?

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Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
Our only point is, very simply, that the Covenant of Grace is the New Covenant. The Covenant of Grace is not the Abrahamic, Mosaic, or Davidic.

I agree with Brandon here-I hold that the NC IS the COG. I posted this link on a previous thread and it was closed down right afterwards before anyone could interact with it. I have posted this once in the past and it was not so well rec'd. For what it's worth, here is it again:

http://www.semperreformanda.com/201...-of-grace-and-new-covenant-interchangeably-2/
 

brandonadams

Puritan Board Freshman
is it right to conclude that you believe that the NC was coterminous with, but distinct from, the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and Davidic covenants? And, therefore, that the NC predated the earthly ministry of Christ?

I don't know what you mean by coterminous. I would recommend reading Owen if you want to fully understand what we mean when we say the New Covenant existed and was efficacious as a promise prior to its legal establishment in the death of Christ. The grace of the New Covenant predated the earthly ministry of Christ in the same way that the grace of the atonement predated the death of Christ.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
I agree with Brandon here-I hold that the NC IS the COG. I posted this link on a previous thread and it was closed down right afterwards before anyone could interact with it. I have posted this once in the past and it was not so well rec'd. For what it's worth, here is it again:

http://www.semperreformanda.com/201...-of-grace-and-new-covenant-interchangeably-2/
The NC would be the fullness of the CoG now becoming ushered in to Man, as there was saving grace in the OC. but no the fullest extent of that until the messiah had come to do his work here at the Cross.
 

Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
Grace is grace; since the C of G started in gen 3, everyone saved comes under 'saving grace' and that grace is the same as there is only one gospel.

One might argue that the amplification of the HS at Pentecost is one treatment of a larger measure! To which I would agree, but it is still God's grace. I call this 'amplification'. Consider that all the prophets are OT. In the NT, we have no new prophets. One could argue that God's grace was more evident then. It tells us in Hebrews that in this day, Christ speaks to us through His word. We have that. Thats a large measure. In the OT, God spoke to men via messenger and face to face. We need to consider these differences.

The NC was consummated by Christ. It is the same as the C of G. As Jesus said, 'this is the new covenant in my blood'. How is this different than Abrahams day, the OT saints looking forward in anticipation, the believers that walked w/ Christ and us, looking back. Yes, Christ died in time, but His blood was efficacious all the ways back to our first parents!
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Grace is grace; since the C of G started in gen 3, everyone saved comes under 'saving grace' and that grace is the same as there is only one gospel.

One might argue that the amplification of the HS at Pentecost is one treatment of a larger measure! To which I would agree, but it is still God's grace. I call this 'amplification'. Consider that all the prophets are OT. In the NT, we have no new prophets. One could argue that God's grace was more evident then. It tells us in Hebrews that in this day, Christ speaks to us through His word. We have that. Thats a large measure. In the OT, God spoke to men via messenger and face to face. We need to consider these differences.

The NC was consummated by Christ. It is the same as the C of G. As Jesus said, 'this is the new covenant in my blood'. How is this different than Abrahams day, the OT saints looking forward in anticipation, the believers that walked w/ Christ and us, looking back. Yes, Christ died in time, but His blood was efficacious all the ways back to our first parents!
What makes the New though a new and better Covenant, as Hebrews so strongly affirms?
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
What makes the New though a new and better Covenant, as Hebrews so strongly affirms?
The NC is an administration of the CoG wherein the foreshadows and promises of the past are now realized in Our Lord. The NC has no dependencies upon uncertain conditions, but rather the realized satisfaction and suretyship of Jesus Christ.

New Covenant administration represents the ultimate expression of God’s single eternal Covenant of Grace with sinners (Hebrews 13:20). That said, per Bavinck, the road was the same on which believers in the Old and the New Testaments walked, but the light in which they walked was different. So in a sense we can say that those experiencing the New Covenant have better promises (Hebrews 8:6), a better sacrifice (Hebrews 9:23), a better High Priest with a better sanctuary (Hebrews 7:26-8:13), and a better hope than what was found in the former explicit OT expressions of the Covenant of Grace.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
The NC is an administration of the CoG wherein the foreshadows and promises of the past are now realized in Our Lord. The NC has no dependencies upon uncertain conditions, but rather the realized satisfaction and suretyship of Jesus Christ.

New Covenant administration represents the ultimate expression of God’s single eternal Covenant of Grace with sinners (Hebrews 13:20). That said, per Bavinck, the road was the same on which believers in the Old and the New Testaments walked, but the light in which they walked was different. So in a sense we can say that those experiencing the New Covenant have better promises (Hebrews 8:6), a better sacrifice (Hebrews 9:23), a better High Priest with a better sanctuary (Hebrews 7:26-8:13), and a better hope than what was found in the former explicit OT expressions of the Covenant of Grace.
So that would be what the writer meant when he stated in Hebrews that the OT sacrifices were all shadows and types of the realty to come, of Christ being crucified for sins?
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
I agree with Brandon here-I hold that the NC IS the COG. I posted this link on a previous thread and it was closed down right afterwards before anyone could interact with it. I have posted this once in the past and it was not so well rec'd. For what it's worth, here is it again:

http://www.semperreformanda.com/201...-of-grace-and-new-covenant-interchangeably-2/
Scott,

You are not a baptist, right? Is it a rare position for a Presbyterian to hold that the NC=CofG?
 

kainos01

Puritan Board Senior
I don't know what you mean by coterminous

If the NC is the CoG, then it would seem that you would have to say that the other post-Fall covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and Davidic) - as administrations of the CoG - are either also equal to the NC or that they are not, which would mean that they co-existed alongside (coterminous with) the NC in the OT period.
If the latter, what was their nature?

NB - for me, this is post #1689. :) Seems an appropriate discussion for it!
 
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brandonadams

Puritan Board Freshman
they co-existed alongside

Yes.

what was their nature?

The Abrahamic promised that Abraham would be the father of the Messiah. It also promised that he would have numerous offspring that would inherit the land of Canaan. Given Kline's interpretation of Abraham's merit of these two blessings as well as the place of circumcision and the threat of being cut off, I am inclined to understand this as a covenant of works.

The Mosaic promised tenure and prosperity in the land if Israel obeyed the Mosaic law and threatened expulsion and curses if they disobeyed. The law was given to Israel as a covenant of works. These curses were prolonged/delayed until the Abrahamic promises were fulfilled.

The Davidic promised that David's offspring would rule over Israel in Canaan if they obeyed Mosaic law. It also typologically pointed towards Christ and thus repeated the Abrahamic promise to David. Both Abraham and David would be the father of the Messiah (who would bless all nations and establish the kingdom of heaven).

In all of this, these covenants revealed the promise of the coming Messiah and provided sufficient revelation of the gospel for people to believe and be saved (which salvation was a grace of the New Covenant).
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
I agree, Patrick, though since Scott did, too (!), could you clarify if you mean to say that the NC is an administration of the CoG which temporally followed other administrations of the CoG?
If I had intended to mean THE CoG I would have so made it clear. Obviously I do not. The NC is an administration of the CoG. The essential substance of the CoG has never been altered from OT to NT. Before or after the incarnation, all who look to Our Lord by faith will be saved. The NC is the final administration of the CoG.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
If I had intended to mean THE CoG I would have so made it clear. Obviously I do not. The NC is an administration of the CoG. The essential substance of the CoG has never been altered from OT to NT. Before or after the incarnation, all who look to Our Lord by faith will be saved. The NC is the final administration of the CoG.
There were partial grace elements within all prior Covenants, but the NC was the completed and full fulfillment of the CoG God had instituted to be in effect after the Fall.
 
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