What I"m saying is that Santa/St. Nick is separable from xmas observance for many who otherwise embrace it and so I'm not sure that placing all the emphasis on that is going to be some sort of determining factor.
Is the celebration of christmas an issue of adiaphora?
- Thread starter earl40
- Start date
- Status
whirlingmerc
Puritan Board Sophomore
I like Christmas around the darkest night of the year ... seems appropriate to remember the light of the word to shining
I also like Hanakah (festival of lighrts) is also the 25th of the month (Jewish month)
However, I would not emphasize the particular day or even insist one observe it.
I think Calvin didn't do special Christmas sermons but continued where he was as he preached and that's fine... according to conscience.
I also like Hanakah (festival of lighrts) is also the 25th of the month (Jewish month)
However, I would not emphasize the particular day or even insist one observe it.
I think Calvin didn't do special Christmas sermons but continued where he was as he preached and that's fine... according to conscience.
earl40
Puritan Board Professor
I hear you and guess my point is many if not all who "display" Santa do so around Dec.
Of course I have no problem reading of the contibutions of the saints.....year round.whirlingmerc
Puritan Board Sophomore
I would like to hear a sermon on how at the Council of Nicea St Nick slapped Areas in front of the emperor and had to sit out the council in jail
If you do the crime you do the time, even if you're Santa.... and the dark dwarf, Athenasius, saved Christmas in his place
If you do the crime you do the time, even if you're Santa.... and the dark dwarf, Athenasius, saved Christmas in his place
earl40
Puritan Board Professor
earl40
Puritan Board Professor
whirlingmerc
Puritan Board Sophomore
Well... would it be a slap if it was closed? I assume plea bargain to a lesser offence was not yet popular
Yes... to clarify... I would not insist someone emphasizes it... or insist on that day..
Related controversy https://www.gci.org/church/holidays/passover
Yes... to clarify... I would not insist someone emphasizes it... or insist on that day..
Related controversy https://www.gci.org/church/holidays/passover
"I desire; I like; I think it is cool" etc. drives out "God commands."
Outside of the church like a holiday? Or outside the church as a private religiously significant observance?
Quatchu
Puritan Board Sophomore
I would say adiaphora, even for a church to celebrate in a minimalist fashion. My own church does advent, more in name then in practice. The pastor will often do a write up on what it is and how its been understood. We then also have a Christmas Eve Carol Sing. Its seems emphasized that this is not worship. Personally I think its Christian Liberty.
I can't help but thinking, we sure would have lost the second reformation if we were in the shoes of Henderson, Rutherford, Gillespie et al. It sure seems true we have "lost" the second reformation as far as its principles. 
Abeard
Puritan Board Freshman
Outside the church like a holiday.
I don't mind having a day off and I don't mind a free meal at my sisters. However, all these things have to be judged whether they are truly indifferent (I may or may not do it by choice) and will differ between individuals and the circumstances of each action. So no automatic no, but not an automatic, sure, do anything you want.
The observances in Romans 14 were connected with the divine commands of the Old Testament which were still in the process of being removed. "Christmas" is a religious day of human appointment and to be opposed because it leads astray in the name of Christ.
Mr. Bultitude
Puritan Board Freshman
What are you referring to?
inactivemember125
Puritan Board Freshman
For myself, Christmas is mixed baggage. One i am so ready to unload and move away from. It holds both good warm memories at my grandparents house, and it holds great pain, when I was in the extremists cult world and after. either way, I was delighted to learn that the original Pilgrim Puritans (according to this site ) did not celebrate christmas at all, they just went to work on that day as any day, and called it foolstide
When Americans banned Christmas - The Week
Though my children and husband will continue on in the practice of traditional Christmas, and I wont contend with them on it, for I am to do whatever to follow after peace with all, however, I must say, that having read this history to Christmas and did some more reading online to all the pagan and heathenish practices taken and used for Christmas, i am glad to relieve myself of the yoke of feeling conscience bound to attend to Christmas and if not to be seen as some sinner sinning some gross sin for not being a full participant in it, especially with regards to being and feeling in bondage to the a man made holiday or tradition, what a relief! to know its not needful
When Americans banned Christmas - The Week
Though my children and husband will continue on in the practice of traditional Christmas, and I wont contend with them on it, for I am to do whatever to follow after peace with all, however, I must say, that having read this history to Christmas and did some more reading online to all the pagan and heathenish practices taken and used for Christmas, i am glad to relieve myself of the yoke of feeling conscience bound to attend to Christmas and if not to be seen as some sinner sinning some gross sin for not being a full participant in it, especially with regards to being and feeling in bondage to the a man made holiday or tradition, what a relief! to know its not needful
Warren
Puritan Board Freshman
Can't be adiaphora if it violates moral law. The moral law is God's to judge, not ours to amend. One day a week was set aside to worship him and cease our labors. I was reading the Westminster last night, because I was told to set up the tree, which I did... a little more reluctantly than usual.
This Sabbath is to be kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations, but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy. chp 21
Christmas isn't difficult for me to refuse. I'm Protestant, Christmas is Roman foolishness. What challenged me is that I have a favorite Passion movie, which retells the Gospel of John word for word, and otherwise depicts a joyful, powerful Jesus with dignity. Something like that is harder to refuse, though I have.
This Sabbath is to be kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations, but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy. chp 21
Christmas isn't difficult for me to refuse. I'm Protestant, Christmas is Roman foolishness. What challenged me is that I have a favorite Passion movie, which retells the Gospel of John word for word, and otherwise depicts a joyful, powerful Jesus with dignity. Something like that is harder to refuse, though I have.
Miss Marple
Puritan Board Junior
I don't celebrate Christmas because it's "cozy." I celebrate because I believe first of all I have the freedom to do so (or I wouldn't), and, I think it is one of the best aspects of American/European culture - a cultural reflection of a Christian faith this is truly part of our past AND our present. Imperfect, yes, but still there.
As a child being raised in an atheist home, I had two sources of information about Jesus. One source was the Laura Ingalls Wilder books. The other was Christmas, i.e., a nativity set, Christmas carols, Charlie Brown Christmas special. . . I believe our cultural celebration of Christmas is overall commendable, although certainly not required for anyone.
As a child being raised in an atheist home, I had two sources of information about Jesus. One source was the Laura Ingalls Wilder books. The other was Christmas, i.e., a nativity set, Christmas carols, Charlie Brown Christmas special. . . I believe our cultural celebration of Christmas is overall commendable, although certainly not required for anyone.
earl40
Puritan Board Professor
You also. I am finding this much more difficult to practice, with consistancy, than I thought it would. My wife may kill me if I don't set up the tree so I chose the lesser of two evils this year. I plan on telling my wife and inlaws this years christmas eve service is the last I plan on attending.
If can get rid of it then do so but the tree is not a hill to die on. First reform the actual religious observances and practices. Once you are convinced and accomplishing that reform the cultural, familial and sentimental baggage comes in due course In my humble opinion.
whirlingmerc
Puritan Board Sophomore
"Come let us adore Him" sure sounds like worship to me....
But I leave it to conscience and consider it part of 'priesthood of believers'
It is an opportunity to publicly reach out and making the most of the time and opportunities to family neighbor city and world is a good thing
But I leave it to conscience and consider it part of 'priesthood of believers'
It is an opportunity to publicly reach out and making the most of the time and opportunities to family neighbor city and world is a good thing
I can't speak to others' practices but as far as Presbyterians from the PCUSA variety, we got all this liturgical worship contrary to our excellent biblical principles attained during the first and second reformations and at Westminster, when it came in under liberalism the same time they were undermining the gospel and word of God. When the OPC and PCA came out from the apostate church they did not reform their worship practices back to what it should have been, either because they remained ignorant or they didn't wanna or don't wanna still. We'd rather have Dan and Bethel's calves and Jeroboam's days set up from his own imagination than Jerusalem's altar and God's Sabbath.
Cymro
Puritan Board Junior
Phillip Henry ( Matthew' father) wrote," Every Lord's day is the the true Christian's Easter day."
Why introduce a special day when the Sabbath is a constant reminder of our Lord's resurrection?
Why invent a Christmas Day when the voice has said, "In the beginning was the Word, and the
Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." What has jingle bells to do with,
Oh Lord, thou art my God and King;
Thee will I magnify and praise:
I will thee bless, and gladly sing
Unto thy holy name always.
Why introduce a special day when the Sabbath is a constant reminder of our Lord's resurrection?
Why invent a Christmas Day when the voice has said, "In the beginning was the Word, and the
Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." What has jingle bells to do with,
Oh Lord, thou art my God and King;
Thee will I magnify and praise:
I will thee bless, and gladly sing
Unto thy holy name always.
Is it a matter of indifference to decorate the sanctuary with evergreens, wreaths, candles, lights etc. for this holiday? If so, is it indifferent to decorate the sanctuary with flags and patriotic decorations for July 4th (here in the US)?
earl40
Puritan Board Professor
inactivemember125
Puritan Board Freshman
that is awesome to read. I did not know that Matthew Henry's father also wrote. I would be vastly interested in reading any thing he wrote. I walk daily with Matthew Henry through the bible, have for many long years.
Cymro
Puritan Board Junior
Pat ---Banner of truth produced a joint biography of Phillip and Matthew. To my mind
Phillip was more eminent than his son. Of course he lived during the repression
of Purititans, so his preaching was restricted really to his home. But he was renowned
for holiness. Interestingly he was born in a little village 2 miles from where I live, his family
moved to London whilst he was still young. If memory serves me right he was not persecuted
as others because his father became the keeper of the water gate from which the King would
board his barge to travel the Thames. Phillip would often play with Charles 2nd on the steps
down to the Thames, and so providentially knew the favour of that friendship, when he became
a preacher.
Phillip was more eminent than his son. Of course he lived during the repression
of Purititans, so his preaching was restricted really to his home. But he was renowned
for holiness. Interestingly he was born in a little village 2 miles from where I live, his family
moved to London whilst he was still young. If memory serves me right he was not persecuted
as others because his father became the keeper of the water gate from which the King would
board his barge to travel the Thames. Phillip would often play with Charles 2nd on the steps
down to the Thames, and so providentially knew the favour of that friendship, when he became
a preacher.
Cymro
Puritan Board Junior
Personally I believe that until we return to Reformed worship the church
will continue to decline in standards and influence. The purity of worship
is the one area of attack that the Lord's people are ignoring, and treat it
as something of indifference. Such an attitude will only foster more accretions
on the noble edifice which is the habitation of the Spirit, and incur the chastisement
of the Highest. He will be worshipped according to His will not ours, and by the
pattern he has prescribed.
will continue to decline in standards and influence. The purity of worship
is the one area of attack that the Lord's people are ignoring, and treat it
as something of indifference. Such an attitude will only foster more accretions
on the noble edifice which is the habitation of the Spirit, and incur the chastisement
of the Highest. He will be worshipped according to His will not ours, and by the
pattern he has prescribed.
- Status
Similar threads
