Is Repentance always immediately granted by God?

[D. Paul]

I ask this first of all in light of knowing myself well enough to know I do not always truly repent when I have "repented".

In my reading through the 1599 Geneva bible, I have come across certain notes that seem to indicate God moving a person through a passage of time and events in order to produce true repentance when the person had already done so. Knowing that we stumble and fall and the reality of "besetting sin", how can one say he has been granted true repentance when the sin that he has practiced still has hold?

I also recall a story of two Puritan brothers and Preachers (for the life of me, I cannot recall their names) where the elder fell under conviction from the preaching of the younger and spent a full year wrestling under the weight of his sin before he was "released".

So, given the superficial notions of repentance in evangelicalism today where it seems all a person must do is say to God "I'm sorry...and I really mean it" what is the reality? Does God truly withhold repentance for a time in order to try one who is His own?

 

[OPC'n]

I think He does if I'm any example!

 

[Prufrock]

For one thing, it is to be noted that repentance is not equivalent to an actual complete cessation of all sin; it is rather a sorrow for and an earnest endeavor to turn from all known sin, and to follow after righteousness: the degree to which this will occur and over how much time can and will vary from person to person.

Contrary to what is often taught -- just because I have truly repented of a sin does not mean that I won't stumble again into the same.

As to why God yet permits his children to walk in sin (even grevious sin) for certain seasons is a mystery; we know that it happens, but we cannot preach its "acceptability:" rather, we preach the continual necessity of repentance and faith.

Incidentally, so I might know better that to which you are specifically referring, could you cite some of the Geneva notes you have been mulling over?

 

[OPC'n]

oops! i meant He does not if I'm any example!

 

[Beth Ellen Nagle]

I think often when we repent of sin but it might be some fruit sin that we are liable to return to until a deeper understanding about root sin is in place. There are blocks to growth in understanding. These can be various. We should seek diligence in the use or ordinary means (pray, Scripture, etc) to gain understanding.

Well, just some thoughts...

 

[Prufrock]

I'll add this (knowing full well this is not what you are saying) as a caution for all of us when this discussion starts: if we learned anything from the Marrow controversy, it is that we need to ensure that our eyes are fixed upon Christ, and that our repentance flows from the message of our interest in him; and that we do not fix upon our repentance or the graces present in us, from which an interest in Christ flows.

I'll apologize in advance for the faith length of this quotation, but I think Boston's remarks here are apposite:

If one examines himself by this infallible rule, he cannot safely take his obedience for a mark or evidence of his being in the state of grace, until he run it up unto his faith, embracing Christ. But then finding that his faith made him a good conscience, and his good conscience a pure heart, and his pure heart produced love, from whence his obedience followed; in that case, his obedience is a true mark of the unfeignedness of his faith; from whence he may assuredly conclude, that he is in the state of grace. Our author's method being a copy of this, the objections against it must affect both.

Let us suppose two men to put themselves on a trial of their state, according to this method, and to pitch upon some external duties of theirs, or some graces which they seem to discern in themselves, as to the substance thereof; though, as yet, they know not the specific nature of the same, namely, whether they be true or false.

The one finds, that his eternal duties proceeded not from the inward actions of his mind; or if they did, that yet these actions of his mind did not proceed from habits of grace in him; or if they did proceed from these, yet these flowed not from his justification, or, which is the same, followed not upon the purging of his conscience; or if they did, that yet his justification, or good conscience, such as they are, proceeded not from his faith; or if they did proceed from it, that yet that faith of his did not embrace Christ, and consequently was not of the special operation of God, or given him by Christ in him, by his Spirit. In all, or any of these cases, it is plain that the external duties, or the [so called] graces, which he pitched upon, can be no true marks from which he may conclude himself to be in a state of grace.

The other finds that his external duties did indeed flow from the inward actions of his mind, and these from habits of grace in him, and these again from his justification or good conscience, and that from his faith, and that his faith embraced Christ. Here two things are observable: (1.) That neither the duties nor graces pitched upon, could be sure marks to him, before he came to the last point; in regard of the flaw that possibly might still be found in the immediate or mediate springs of them. And therefore the looking, mentioned by the author, is indeed a progressive knowledge and discovery, but still unclear and uncertain, till one comes to the end, and the whole evidence is put together; even as it is in searching out some abstruse point, by observation of the dependence and connection things have one with another. Wherefore our author does by no means suppose, that I must know certainly that I am in Christ and justified, and that my faith is given me by Christ, before these duties or graces can be true marks or evidences to me. (2.) That the man perceiving his embracing of Christ, as to the substance of the action, is assured of the saving nature of it, [namely, that it is a faith uniting him to Christ, and given him by Christ in him] by the train of effects he sees to have followed it, according to the established order in the covenant of grace: (1 Tim 1:5). From which effects of his faith embracing Christ, that which might have deceived him, was all along gradually removed in the progress. Thus he is indeed sent back to the fruits of his faith, for true marks and evidences of it; but he is sent back to them, as standing clear now in his regress, though they were not so in his progress. And at this rate he is not left to run in a circle, but has a comfortable end of his self-examination, being assured by his duties and graces, the fruits of his faith, that his faith is unfeigned, and himself in the state of grace.

 

[D. Paul]

Incidentally, so I might know better that to which you are specifically referring, could you cite some of the Geneva notes you have been mulling over?

I'll have to review, but I'll try to find them for you. I made note of them as I was in the first stage of this years 90-day plan for Scripture reading. The Geneva notes are priceless. Thanks for your other comments. You're striking the right chords. This was helpful as well: "As to why God yet permits his children to walk in sin (even grevious sin) for certain seasons is a mystery; we know that it happens, but we cannot preach its "acceptability:" rather, we preach the continual necessity of repentance and faith."

Thanks!

 

[Idelette]

As to why God yet permits his children to walk in sin (even grevious sin) for certain seasons is a mystery; we know that it happens, but we cannot preach its "acceptability:" rather, we preach the continual necessity of repentance and faith.

You know, I've struggled with this issue of repentance and continued sin in our lives and why God allows it.....and then I came across a simple quote by Thomas Watson that was quite profound to me!

"Better is the sin which humbles me, than that duty which makes me proud." - Thomas Waston

I can only speak for myself, but I know that God has used the very sins that I struggle with to humble me and keep me reliant upon Him.....lest I exalt myself, which we are all prone to do!

-----Added 4/13/2009 at 10:15:33 EST-----

Also, to address the OP, I think repentance is a continual process....I don't think its an immediate and one time response. I think we are continually repenting of specific sins, and we ought to be growing less and less enslaved to them over time! I think that's part of the sanctifying process.

 

[KMK]

I don't know if it is a matter of Christ 'withholding' repentance, but a matter of Christ making us willing in the day of His power. (Ps 110) Christ is our King in that He governs our hearts and overcomes the enemies of sin and death. (LBC 8:8) Perhaps Christ knows if He vanquished sin in our flesh entirely we would forget about Him, so He allows the struggle with sin to continue that we rely on Him day by day.

 

[DonP]

NO ! Heb 12:17
for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.
NKJV

 

[DonP]

YES if the repentance is genuine evangelical and not merely legal.

Prov 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. NKJV

2 Cor 7:9 but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter. NKJV

Q. 76. What is repentance unto life?

A. Repentance unto life is a saving grace,[320] wrought in the heart of a sinner by the Spirit[321] and Word of God,[322] whereby, out of the sight and sense, not only of the danger,[323] but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins,[324] and upon the apprehension of God’s mercy in Christ to such as are penitent,[325] he so grieves for[326] and hates his sins,[327] as that he turns from them all to God,[328] purposing and endeavouring constantly to walk with him in all the ways of new obedience.[329]

Chapter XV
Of Repentance unto Life

I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace,[1] the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the Gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.[2]

II. By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature, and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of His mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God,[3] purposing and endeavouring to walk with Him in all the ways of His commandments.[4]

III. Although repentance is not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof,[5] which is the act of God's free grace in Christ,[6] yet it is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.[7]

IV. As there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation;[8] so there is no sin so great, that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.[9]

V. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly.[10]

VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof;[11] upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy;[12] so he that scandelizeth his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended;[13] who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.[14]

 

[Prufrock]

"Better is the sin which humbles me, than that duty which makes me proud." - Thomas Waston

I can only speak for myself, but I know that God has used the very sins that I struggle with to humble me and keep me reliant upon Him.....lest I exalt myself, which we are all prone to do!

Thanks for sharing; that's a good quote to remember. Praise God that we serve a King who can use even our folly and disobedience for our good and to his glory.

 

[Idelette]

"Better is the sin which humbles me, than that duty which makes me proud." - Thomas Waston

I can only speak for myself, but I know that God has used the very sins that I struggle with to humble me and keep me reliant upon Him.....lest I exalt myself, which we are all prone to do!

Thanks for sharing; that's a good quote to remember. Praise God that we serve a King who can use even our folly and disobedience for our good and to his glory.

Amen! I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Beth Ellen Nagle]

"Better is the sin which humbles me, than that duty which makes me proud." - Thomas Waston

I can only speak for myself, but I know that God has used the very sins that I struggle with to humble me and keep me reliant upon Him.....lest I exalt myself, which we are all prone to do!

Thanks for sharing; that's a good quote to remember. Praise God that we serve a King who can use even our folly and disobedience for our good and to his glory.

Amen!

 

[Rich Koster]

Hair splitting questions: Does God grant repentance when we request it, or gift it in His sovereign timing? Some of PeaceMakers posts*have a future tense in them in the English. What does the original language say?

 

[Christoffer]

Can believing in Christ be seen as the first act of repenting that a sinner does?

 

[DonP]

The forgiveness is definitely there when we sin. We do not need to ask forgiveness or repent to get forgiven for it is not of our works but His grace.
Our act is a manifestation of the Spirit's work in us.

So I am not sure if I am clear on the OPs question.

Since we know forgiveness is there, did you mean"

1. can God leave us blinded to our sin for a time before we are convicted and repent, like David over Bathsheba

2. Can we be convicted of a sin for a while and not repent and go on sinning before coming to repent

3. Or can we seek to repent and not be allowed to by God for a while.

The 3rd I would say is inconsistent with scripture.
The 1st we have example.

So as scripture and Confession say, if we repent there is mercy and forgiveness no waiting. We may not have the joy of the Lord fully restored in our experience, but how we interpret what is happening is not absolute.
We are told not to quench the Spirit so we may be able to in some sense remove ourselves from being close in intimacy with God.
There may be some discipline from Him with this. But there is mercy and forgiveness since that has already been completed and no punishment for us.

The 2nd is complicated and dangerous to ask and answer there is so much involved.

But to turn this into, I wanted to repent but God would not grant me repentance or made me wait for repentance, I think is against scripture and would take away our responsibility.

We know God must grant us grace for all we do but we are responsible to repent as soon as we are convicted of sin. It would be our desire to continue to sin that would keep us sinning not God's unwillingness to give us repentance


We are strongly warned not to continue sinning, or practicing ongoing sin.
It is our responsibility to repent.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
NKJV

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
NKJV

1 John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
NKJV

1 John 5:2-4
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
NKJV

 

[D. Paul]

Hair splitting questions: Does God grant repentance when we request it, or gift it in His sovereign timing? Some of PeaceMakers posts*have a future tense in them in the English. What does the original language say?

This is a better-stated question than my own. God will indeed bring His own to true repentance but it is the manner in which he does so that brings about the issue I raise concerning the evangelical notion.

The lack of the proper fear of God that accompanies true repentance seems to be the missing element. The means by which God brings us to that true repentance can be varied and quite frightening, which is borne out in PeaceMakers statements.

 

[Jimmy the Greek]

Sorry for not reading every post, but one thing comes to my mind. "Struggling" with sin in our lives is a good sign. The real problem is if there is no struggle with it.

 

[D. Paul]

Incidentally, the Brothers I mentioned were the Erskines!