I have been attending this church for almost a year now and my family really likes it. The preaching is good and is doctrinally sound, the people are great and the relationships I have made are wonderful, my only problem with this church is the music is bad. Not bad as in the singing is bad or the instruments are poorly played. Rather, the music is more or less a spectacle that people watch and no one in this church is really engaged in the worship. Also, the song choice is bad. Sometimes they have songs that are theologically driven, but that's becoming more and more the exception. A majority of their songs are emotionally driven and very shallow theologically. I am debating going to the pastor and talking to him about this, but I'm not entirely sure how to bring this up to him. I guess I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but it might need to happen. What are your recommendations? Also, should nothing change, would this be an issue great enough to leave the Church? I feel that it might be since I am thirsting for Biblical corporate worship.
Is music a big enough issue to leave a church over?
- Thread starter jprince
- Start date
- Status
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
It depends.
It looks like from your profile that you are Westminster standards and looking at Presbyterian seminaries. There are some decent PCA churches not far up the road from you. So perhaps you shouldn't leave the church over musical issues, but over theological issues.
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
I second this opinion. There is not much I can add to Edward's advice.
Just be prepared, if you change churches, to have some other annoyance crop up in your new "relationship." Make a principled choice, then stick with it (like getting married). Love has to arise from somewhere deeper than aesthetics.
Gforce9
Puritan Board Junior
We made this decision about two years ago from pop-evangelicalism to the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. I could not go back to evangelicalism now. We left for theological reasons (covenantal inclusion) and it was not an easy move after 12 years. Our new friends are among the best relationships we've ever had. The focus from self centeredness/improvement to the true gospel handed down is nothing short of soul liberating and satisfying.
I wish not to persuade anyone to leave where they're at, so long as it is a true church acting as one. If that is not the case, do your homework.....research the denomination.....watch how the officers lead/shepherd......ask God for wisdom.
Since you grow in desire for the Westminster Standards, here is a link to NAPARC:
NAPARC » North American Presbyterian and Reformed Council
I wish not to persuade anyone to leave where they're at, so long as it is a true church acting as one. If that is not the case, do your homework.....research the denomination.....watch how the officers lead/shepherd......ask God for wisdom.
Since you grow in desire for the Westminster Standards, here is a link to NAPARC:
NAPARC » North American Presbyterian and Reformed Council
whirlingmerc
Puritan Board Sophomore
I agree, you cannot separate music from theology.
I think it would be good to try and engage the leadership feeding back your concerns. How do leaders of that church look at the same music?
Every place will have some issues. Give them a chance to respond.
I think it would be good to try and engage the leadership feeding back your concerns. How do leaders of that church look at the same music?
Every place will have some issues. Give them a chance to respond.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Sometimes. Other times, it might just be stylistic. So I'll stick with 'It depends'.
The pastor once said their music is "theological" which I guess is technically true. I do think I will ask him or one of the assistant pastors what their thoughts are and see how they respond.
I looked at the "What to Expect" section of your church's website and see that "congregational singing" is done with a team of singers up front. And that your church has multiple services. There are churches in my area who have chosen the option of having a "traditional service", meaning traditional songs, and a "contemporary service" meaning contemporary songs.
I highly recommend that you do not simply leave. Find a way to approach the pastor or worship leader in private, not with accusations but with dialogue, questions, and your concern aka longing.
I made the excruciatingly difficult decision to leave a reformed church last year after attending for 3 years. From the very start I was never able to follow the sermons, or find sound theology or the Gospel in them. Only a few times a year was I able to sing one of their worship songs from the heart in praise to God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. All of the rest of the time I was singing words of praise to Jesus under my breath. There were other things God taught me there. But there was also a lot of agony in prayer regarding what to do. I finally went to the pastor in private. And ultimately I decided to leave.
If the preaching is good and doctrinally sound you are getting more than many people get. Recognizing you are getting that is a good thing.
(Edit: I see you just posted you will be approaching the leadership. That is good.)
I highly recommend that you do not simply leave. Find a way to approach the pastor or worship leader in private, not with accusations but with dialogue, questions, and your concern aka longing.
I made the excruciatingly difficult decision to leave a reformed church last year after attending for 3 years. From the very start I was never able to follow the sermons, or find sound theology or the Gospel in them. Only a few times a year was I able to sing one of their worship songs from the heart in praise to God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. All of the rest of the time I was singing words of praise to Jesus under my breath. There were other things God taught me there. But there was also a lot of agony in prayer regarding what to do. I finally went to the pastor in private. And ultimately I decided to leave.
If the preaching is good and doctrinally sound you are getting more than many people get. Recognizing you are getting that is a good thing.
(Edit: I see you just posted you will be approaching the leadership. That is good.)
This is not as easy to find these days as you think. In our culture, you need to cling to good preaching when you find it.
Jack K
Puritan Board Doctor
I've been in churches like the one you describe: solid teaching and preaching but otherwise weak worship services. This would seem like it shouldn't happen. Shouldn't a church that knows rich theology and teaching have that richness extend to what it sings? Indeed it should, but this isn't always the case.
I think what happens is that lead pastors feel stretched and must focus on certain things; usually preaching/teaching and maybe a bit of counselling. Singing and the non-preaching parts of the service are easy to pass off to someone else, usually someone who seems more gifted musically than the pastor but not necessarily gifted theologically. On some level the pastor may realize that the singing is spiritually and theologically weak, and that the emphasis is in the wrong place, but it's easy for him to let this go because...
- He has other things to do.
- He feels music is not his expertise.
- The congregation seems to like the music, and it's filling up the sanctuary with people who listen to his preaching.
- He's never been schooled in a theology of worship in which the singing was seen as much more than something to attract an audience or build a mood as a set-up for preaching.
This pastor needs to be gently challenged to guide his church in the area of worship just as he does in its teaching ministry. Before you consider leaving an otherwise solid church over this, buy the pastor a cup of coffee and ask him, "Why is your preaching so rich and spiritually astute while the singing part of the service is so theologically weak?" or something like that. Get him thinking about the issue. Give him a chance to work on it.
And even if progress is slow, you probably ought to be cautious about thoughts of leaving. Check your heart. Be very hestitant to leave a church out of personal annoyance or differences in taste. Make sure your thinking is driven by other factors.
I think what happens is that lead pastors feel stretched and must focus on certain things; usually preaching/teaching and maybe a bit of counselling. Singing and the non-preaching parts of the service are easy to pass off to someone else, usually someone who seems more gifted musically than the pastor but not necessarily gifted theologically. On some level the pastor may realize that the singing is spiritually and theologically weak, and that the emphasis is in the wrong place, but it's easy for him to let this go because...
- He has other things to do.
- He feels music is not his expertise.
- The congregation seems to like the music, and it's filling up the sanctuary with people who listen to his preaching.
- He's never been schooled in a theology of worship in which the singing was seen as much more than something to attract an audience or build a mood as a set-up for preaching.
This pastor needs to be gently challenged to guide his church in the area of worship just as he does in its teaching ministry. Before you consider leaving an otherwise solid church over this, buy the pastor a cup of coffee and ask him, "Why is your preaching so rich and spiritually astute while the singing part of the service is so theologically weak?" or something like that. Get him thinking about the issue. Give him a chance to work on it.
And even if progress is slow, you probably ought to be cautious about thoughts of leaving. Check your heart. Be very hestitant to leave a church out of personal annoyance or differences in taste. Make sure your thinking is driven by other factors.
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
Depends on your other options - what would you leave for? I'd say yes, worship is a valid reason to leave a church. God has commanded - not suggested, not implied - in His word how He expects us to worship Him. Any worship other than what He has commanded is sinful. Of course, there are times when you have to make do with the best of your options so again, it would depend on what you would be leaving for. If you could leave for a church that upholds the regulative principle of worship, then I'd advise you to do so. Of course, I would assume (hope) that this type of church would also be biblical in other aspects as well, i.e. preaching, sacraments, discipline.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Evangel presbytery - should be able to find some good preaching there. (They are the folks that unanimously voted to not let Leithart in to labor out of bounds). Briarwood is the biggest and best known, but there are a number of other churches in the area of varying sizes. The Churches of Evangel Presbytery
It is difficult for someone when a regular aspect of gathering together in public worship is in some way disagreeable. Talking about it with the pastor/elder is a good step. Maybe others feel the same way and perhaps have similarly sought an "in house" solution, but anyway pray it over before you see him. It sounds like there is a lot going for this fellowship under this leadership, so your tactful input should be considered. Maybe you could suggest a few examples of great psalms/hymns which would better compliment the spoken ministry and which could encourage more of a response to participate? Feathers need not be ruffled if you can make helpful suggestions.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I am familiar with Evangel and Briarwood and have heard/seen nothing but good things from both congregations. I will talk with the minister of my church, but I do see myself aligning more and more with the reformed presbyterian model of churches and so I don't know what I will do, except much prayer. Thanks for your input!
- Status
