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Discussion in 'Worship' started by ABondSlaveofChristJesus, Mar 5, 2005.
This topic has been exhausted here on PB. Did you do a search?
Here's a good one:
[Edited on 3-5-2005 by Scott Bushey]
*sigh* I'm so tired of having to do so many "wierd" thngs.
I'm not complaining about the sabbath or scripture, I am complaining about how far off the mark our Christian culture is from it. Doing scriptural things seems to always start huge debates and discussions, as it is so foreign in the Bible Belt.
I'm going to look into this with more depth, but telling the the people I take to church, who usually like to eat out afterwards, that doing so is not proper will cause some anger and disappointment if they don't agree. I am their only ride to this church and it's not like they can find other rides since its 25-30 miles away.
1. What "wierd things" are you referring to?
2. I recommend, possibly to the chagrin of some here, that if your conscience tells you to abstain from going out to eat on Sunday then advise your friends of that. If they take great offense then I would suggest taking them and just not eating. Yes, it is your car and yes, you're the one doing them the favor by driving them in the first place... but come on, it does seem kind of rude to hold someone hostage to your convictions about what is, honestly, a debated topic, just because you have the keys. Instead, I would suggest that you try to gently and lovingly teach them the truth of which you have become convinced.... but being a rude jerk about it neither glorifies God nor convinces man - even God's people!
refusal of watching "Jesus" movies
refusal to sing contemp songs and even uninspired hymns
not doing hw on the sabbath
disagreement with instruments
Refusal to go to R movies, listen to secular music, to play zelda or watch harry potter, would be much more normal in my culture
Is it wrong to support/eat at restaurants on the Sabbath?
If in fact you choose to be supportive of the Sabbath with regard to the law, I might start by adhering to the correct day. The "Christian Sabbath" has been changed to the 1st day of the week (Sunday). If you oppose eating out on Sundays, great. The Lord's Sabbath begins at sundown on Friday and ends at sundown Saturday. I know there is plenty of talk on this subject; however, one has to look at the origin of the change and why this change occured. I can not find anywhere in the scripture where God has changed His Sabbath. Take your friends out to eat after church and pig-out. I really think its a great idea. Good luck.
If you have not already done so, I would encourage you to read A.A. Hodge's work "Sabbath, The Day Changed: The Sabbath Preserved."
Thanks Andrew. I will take a look at this article. I also posted a reply on the Sabbath-breaking thread.
Hodge says in the article:
The change of the day by the apostolic Church has thus been proved by historical testimony, to which much might be added if space permitted, but against which no counter-evidence exists.
We may paraphrase this by repeting what Texas Aggie has already said:
I can not find anywhere in the scripture where God has changed His Sabbath.
I love Hodge but he was wrong to degrade his exegesis when he conceded to the science of the day and tried to make Genesis fit the latest Cosmology theories.
He was wrong again in siding with the majority and Rome in trying to make the change of the sabbath day a bliblical ordinance.
I remain unchanged in my conviction that the seventh day Sabbath is a creation ordinance and cannot be changed by anyone except the Creator himself.
Matt, be prepared, I got beat up on the sabbath issue already and the passover one.... all done in love and charity of course.
Tim, what do instruments have to do with it if you are not the one playing them...sounds like you are bringing up topics and then upset that they don't agree with you. It's not something to constantly point out every Sunday and cause dissention within the body.
Songs, don't sing...but same with the instruments...are you pressuring your friends to agree with you?
Doing homework, what does this have to do with your friends? Sorry, you don't feel like doing homework today...if they say they have to and already have heard your stand on it...then say "okay, see ya later"
movies, same thing, dude...."see ya!"
keep it simple, don't frustrate them or yourself. Live it and keep your clap shut...it will be noticed...but shoving the cow never got her to move.
It's ironic that this discussion has been renewed on the anniversary of Constantine's Sunday edict (March 8, 321), but I think it's important to point out that Constantine was only following the teaching of the early Church which preceded him (Hodge's article cites a number of Church Fathers before Constantine on this subject) and they in turn only followed the apostolic teaching and example with respect to Christian worship on the Lord's Day, so called because Christ rose from the dead on the first day of the week and thus the Lord of the Sabbath himself instituted the change.
I'm not forcing anything on them, where did you get that idea? They observe my views on these things and think it's weird as all get out, because of the current modified state of christianity.
A point was made by Pastor Way a while back regarding this issue that is really true. The retail sector is a major part of our economy and employees more that a few people. As the view of the Christian Sabbath has slacked off over the years, more retailers, including restaurants, are open all day Sunday. I have more than a few friends who are having to work on Sunday forgoing Sunday services. So I avoid going out to eat after worship keeping in mind not only that this is the Lord's Day but I also don't want to contribute to the plight of my brothers and sisters who are having to work on Sunday because other Christians would rather eat out than eat at home.
Tell your friends that ride with you to Church that your car only goes from your house to church and back on Sunday. And if they are hungry you'll make lunch for them. They'll either find another way to get to Church or you'll become a good cook!
When does the sabbath begin and end?
Midnight to Midnight?
dusk until dawn?
[Edited on 3-13-2005 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]
I would say midnight to midnight.
The best treatment I have read of when the Christian Sabbath begins is by Greg Price here (midnight to midnight).