Is it wise to attend a pagan worship service?

[Hamalas]

Hey y'all, I'm wondering what wisdom you can offer me about worship services. Basically my question is this: is it ok to attend a Roman Catholic Mass, an Eastern Orthodox worship service, or even a Muslim service? I'm not talking about attending regularly nor am I talking about missing the gathering of God's people to attend a non-christian service. But I am curious about what y'all think of attending such a gathering for experience/research/apologetics reasons. What say ye?

 

[Covenant Joel]

Hey y'all, I'm wondering what wisdom you can offer me about worship services. Basically my question is this: is it ok to attend a Roman Catholic Mass, an Eastern Orthodox worship service, or even a Muslim service? I'm not talking about attending regularly nor am I talking about missing the gathering of God's people to attend a non-christian service. But I am curious about what y'all think of attending such a gathering for experience/research/apologetics reasons. What say ye?

For the purposes of research and understanding, I think it can be fine. Just be careful that you don't participate in any way. Contact someone beforehand, or arrive early, and explain why you are there. I have learned a lot about Mslm friends from observing how they worship.

 

[pianoman]

The first thought that comes to me with this is the 3 Hebrew children in Daniel not bowing down to the image the Babylonians had set up. I think going to observe is fine as long as it's one time, and as long as, one does not partake in the actual sacraments such as communion, etc. It just seems going along with it seems to put one's approval to others. I have wondered about this myself many times. I've heard of two or three stories of exmuslims going into mosques and witnessing to muslims and the muslims coming to Christ. You cannot get much more awesome than that.

 

[Scott1]

I'm not convinced a Christian ought attend, intentionally a false religion service.

There might be some extraordinary reason, but in general- where is the biblical pattern of attending false religion corporate worship "to learn more about it"? How does one attend without participating? What is participation?

When one looks at avoiding the appearance of evil, how it might cause a weaker brother to stumble, the true demonic power that can deceive, it all militates against it.

We think we know our heart, our own weaknesses, but getting sucked in is a very real prospect, getting influenced even more so.

 

[Notthemama1984]

I have been a few Masses, Jewish services, and Mormon services. I even took communion at some of them. Showing some respect to pagans can go a long way with people. They know that I am not approving of their religion.

 

[SolaScriptura]

What takes prudence is the fact that when visiting non-Christian worship gatherings we can, either out of ignorance or trying to be inconspicuous or in an attempt to be respectful to the attendees/worshippers, inadvertantly do something that is participatory rather than merely observatory.

For instance... Though I'm almost certain they exist, I've never been into a synagogue where there wasn't a polite request for visitoring men to don a yarmulke out of respect for their tradition.

If one complies have they inherently participated?

---------- Post added at 08:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 PM ----------

I have been a few Masses, Jewish services, and Mormon services. I even took communion at some of them. Showing some respect to pagans can go a long way with people. They know that I am not approving of their religion.

WHAT?!?! PLEASE say you are kidding me. It is one thing to show respect. It is quite another to participate and engage in their worship with them. And yes, if you worship with them in accordance with their practice... despite your protestations to the contrary you ARE approving of their religion. You cannot drink the cup of demons and the cup of the Lord.

 

[SolaSaint]

I understand your desire to learn from them to be able to defend our faith by exposing their errors, but remember there is darkness in false worship. I have experienced much darkness and even depression from studying false religions. Be careful and make sure it is for the right reasons, not your own but God's.

 

[Notthemama1984]

The Rabbi was giving Oreo's and wine. It sounded like a good combo.

 

[Romans922]

It may be wise to read Joshua 23, Judges 1 and prior to that reading Exodus 23:23-33; 34:11-16; Deut. 7:1-5.

 

[Dearly Bought]

No, it is not wise, and may even be immoral. Each of God's commandments requires certain good actions as well as prohibiting some evil actions. As the Heidelberg Catechism explains from the Scriptures, we may not merely sit silently in the face of blasphemy and idolatry:

Question 100. Is then the profaning of God's name, by swearing and cursing, so heinous a sin, that his wrath is kindled against those who do not endeavour, as much as in them lies, to prevent and forbid such cursing and swearing?

Answer: It undoubtedly is, (a) for there is no sin greater or more provoking to God, than the profaning of his name; and therefore he has commanded this sin to be punished with death. (b)

(a) Prov.29:24 Whoso is partner with a thief hateth his own soul: he heareth cursing, and bewrayeth it not. Lev.5:1 And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity. (b) Lev.24:15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. Lev.24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

(Heidelberg Catechism Q&A 100)

"Attendance at the Mass shows the link between doctrine and worship because it is a silent acquiescence in blasphemy that denies and subverts the very gospel itself."

("Can a Protestant attend Mass?" from the Holdfast blog)

God's Law does not recognize a "neutral" position towards false worship.

 

[Edward]

I have been a few Masses, Jewish services, and Mormon services. I even took communion at some of them.

I've been, but I'd never take communion at a Mass or a LDS service. In fact, last time I worshiped with dispensationalists, I realized in the middle of the service that they weren't rightly administering the sacrament, and put aside the cup. I'd urge you to expand your educational horizons after you get your degree.

 

[Notthemama1984]

In which manner?

 

[dudley]

No, it is not wise, and may even be immoral. Each of God's commandments requires certain good actions as well as prohibiting some evil actions. As the Heidelberg Catechism explains from the Scriptures, we may not merely sit silently in the face of blasphemy and idolatry:

Question 100. Is then the profaning of God's name, by swearing and cursing, so heinous a sin, that his wrath is kindled against those who do not endeavour, as much as in them lies, to prevent and forbid such cursing and swearing?

Answer: It undoubtedly is, (a) for there is no sin greater or more provoking to God, than the profaning of his name; and therefore he has commanded this sin to be punished with death. (b)

(a) Prov.29:24 Whoso is partner with a thief hateth his own soul: he heareth cursing, and bewrayeth it not. Lev.5:1 And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity. (b) Lev.24:15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. Lev.24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

(Heidelberg Catechism Q&A 100)

"Attendance at the Mass shows the link between doctrine and worship because it is a silent acquiescence in blasphemy that denies and subverts the very gospel itself."

("Can a Protestant attend Mass?" from the Holdfast blog)

God's Law does not recognize a "neutral" position towards false worship.

Amen Bryan! I am an ex Roamn catholic and now a Reformed Protestant and a Presbyterian. It is more obvious to me that the Roman church teaching and worship of the “sacrifice” of the mass is incorrect and a denial of our salvation from the work of Christ alone on Calvary for our Justification and we are made righteous by that connection to Christ by our affirmation of faith; no merit of our own, nor is their anything we can do to merit our salvation.
I read in ………
Hebrews 7:23-24; Hebrews 7:27; Hebrews 10:11-12; Hebrews 10:14; Hebrews 10:18 New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 2011

Hebrews 7:23-24
23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.
Hebrews 7:27
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
Hebrews 10:11-12
11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
Hebrews 10:14
14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Hebrews 10:18
18 And where these have been forgiven, “sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.”

The above passages were very enlightening to me ( “sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.” )
as I read them this morning and I believe they give further evidence to me that the Protestant position of the Lords Supper as a memorial is correct as so many things in the Protestant fold and in the Presbyterian church are; which make good sense and have strengthened my faith and my understanding of what it means to be a Christian. To me I now believe as a Presbyterian the Lord's Supper is the sign and seal of eating and drinking in communion with the crucified and risen Lord.
The Roman catholic mass is a denial of Christs one time sacrifice on Calvary and denies the vary act of salvation Christ made for all who place their faith in Him alone.It is an abomination, a balsphemy and a false form of worship!It is as John Knox said Idolatry!

 

[Notthemama1984]

I didn't say I had communion at Mass. That isn't allowed unless you are Catholic.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I didn't say I had communion at Mass. That isn't allowed unless you are Catholic.

So the reason you don't is because they won't let you?

Your quote was that you have been to masses, Jewish services, and Mormon services. And that you'd "even" taken communion at some of them.

 

[nicnap]

Is it wise to taste poison (not enough to kill you, mind you) -- just to taste it? We have the truth; no need to immerse yourself in error. It will come to your door soon enough, and the better you know the truth, the more you'll be able to spot their error and defend your position to them.

 

[dudley]

Is it wise to taste poison (not enough to kill you, mind you) -- just to taste it? We have the truth; no need to immerse yourself in error. It will come to your door soon enough, and the better you know the truth, the more you'll be able to spot their error and defend your position to them.

Amen brother , the Roman catholic bread wafer is poison to the truth!

 

[Notthemama1984]

I didn't say I had communion at Mass. That isn't allowed unless you are Catholic.

So the reason you don't is because they won't let you?

Your quote was that you have been to masses, Jewish services, and Mormon services. And that you'd "even" taken communion at some of them.

No, I don't worry about hypotheticals. I don't know what I would or would not do and am not going to waste my time attempting to determine what my hypothetical actions would be.

I have partaken in Jewish services, Mormon services, Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Free Methodist, Christian Church, non-denominational, community church, and even Pentecostal communion services (at least those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head).

 

[au5t1n]

I have been a few Masses, Jewish services, and Mormon services. I even took communion at some of them. Showing some respect to pagans can go a long way with people. They know that I am not approving of their religion.

I'm having a hard time believing you are not playing devil's advocate or something here. When are you going to say, "Gotcha! I really had y'all going!"? A couple months ago you were saying Leonard Ravenhill is a heretic because he's Arminian. Now you are saying it's okay to take communion at Jewish and Mormon services. I'm confused. Has Boliver gone soft??

You cannot drink the cup of demons and the cup of the Lord.

Ben is quoting from 1 Cor. 10 here. How do you understand this passage as it relates to taking communion at Jewish and Mormon services? I don't mean to pile on, but I'm really confused about where you're going with this, Boliver. Help us out.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Is it wise to taste poison (not enough to kill you, mind you) -- just to taste it? We have the truth; no need to immerse yourself in error. It will come to your door soon enough, and the better you know the truth, the more you'll be able to spot their error and defend your position to them.

If the poison is designed to attack cancer, or if the poison is of a small enough dose to help your body develop antibodies, if the poison is arsenic and is designed to kill parasites, if the rat poison is in the pill form warfarin and I am taking it to prevent blood clots.

The list can go on and on. Poisons have their purpose. So to learning from poisonous theology is beneficial. If it wasn't then why do we learn about various heresies in seminary and why are we examined on our knowledge of such heresies during ordination examination?

 

[Notthemama1984]

I have been a few Masses, Jewish services, and Mormon services. I even took communion at some of them. Showing some respect to pagans can go a long way with people. They know that I am not approving of their religion.

I'm having a hard time believing you are not playing devil's advocate or something here. When are you going to say, "Gotcha! I really had y'all going!"? A couple months ago you were saying Leonard Ravenhill is a heretic because he's Arminian. Now you are saying it's okay to take communion at Jewish and Mormon services. I'm confused. Has Boliver gone soft??

You cannot drink the cup of demons and the cup of the Lord.

Ben is quoting from 1 Cor. 10 here. How do you understand this passage as it relates to taking communion at Jewish and Mormon services? I don't mean to pile on, but I'm really confused about where you're going with this, Boliver. Help us out.

Nope, I haven't gone soft. I would not attempt to learn theology from an Arminian. It is pointless. I am not going to a Mormon service to learn theology. That would be stupid.

I am not playing devil's advocate either. There was quite the discussion on FB when I went to the Mormon service a few weeks back. Maybe someone here can vouch that conversation?

 

[Dearly Bought]

Also relevant:

Q. 108. What are the duties required in the second commandment?
A. The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath instituted in his Word;518 particularly prayer and thanksgiving in the name of Christ;519 the reading, preaching, and hearing of the Word;520 the administration and receiving of the sacraments;521 church government and discipline;522 the ministry and maintainance thereof;523 religious fasting;524 swearing by the name of God;525 and vowing unto him;526 as also the disapproving, detesting, opposing all false worship;527 and, according to each one’s place and calling, removing it, and all monuments of idolatry.528

527 Acts 17:16-17. Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him. Psalm 16:4. Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.

528 Deuteronomy 7:5. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. Isaiah 30:22. Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.

(Westminster Larger Catechism Q&A 108)

 

[caoclan]

But Boliver, with all due respect you are philosophizing here. How can a Christian partake from the communion rooted in darkness? I am not addressing your attendance, just your consumption. One does not have to partake from the eucharist, for example to observe and learn what they are doing.

 

[au5t1n]

Nope, I haven't gone soft. I would not attempt to learn theology from an Arminian. It is pointless. I am not going to a Mormon service to learn theology. That would be stupid.

I am not playing devil's advocate either. There was quite the discussion on FB when I went to the Mormon service a few weeks back. Maybe someone here can vouch that conversation?

I am less concerned with visiting than with taking communion there, which does lend tacit approval to their practice. If you are not advocating that, perhaps it would be a good idea to clarify that, since your original comment implies you'd support taking communion in a false worship service in order to show them respect. If this does not violate the spirit of 1 Cor. 10:21 ("Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils."), I don't know what does.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Again, one cannot partake of the Eucharist unless you are Catholic.

 

[au5t1n]

Again, one cannot partake of the Eucharist unless you are Catholic.

Again, you mentioned masses, Jewish services, and Mormon services in your original comment. So we've ruled out masses. At which of the other two do you think it's all right to partake in communion?

 

[caoclan]

Not so, Boliver. They don't screen and check your card at the "altar."

 

[Notthemama1984]

I am less concerned with visiting than with taking communion there, which does lend tacit approval to their practice. If you are not advocating that, perhaps it would be a good idea to clarify that, since your original comment implies you'd support taking communion in a false worship service in order to show them respect.

Maybe you should reread my original. I said that those who I went with, know that I do not approve of their religion. In my eyes it is no different than wearing proper clothing in a Jewish or Muslim service. I am not approving of anything. I am simply eating a little cracker to help with my hunger cravings.

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

Not so, Boliver. They don't screen and check your card at the "altar."

I said from the beginning about respect. How would it be respectful to attend with my Catholic friend who knows I am Presbyterian and pretend to be Catholic? I am not going to lie.

 

[caoclan]

I am less concerned with visiting than with taking communion there, which does lend tacit approval to their practice. If you are not advocating that, perhaps it would be a good idea to clarify that, since your original comment implies you'd support taking communion in a false worship service in order to show them respect.

Maybe you should reread my original. I said that those who I went with, know that I do not approve of their religion. In my eyes it is no different than wearing proper clothing in a Jewish or Muslim service. I am not approving of anything. I am simply eating a little cracker to help with my hunger cravings.

Huh??? That comes across as a bit disingenuous. Did you grab a handful, if you were so hungry?

 

[nicnap]

If the poison is designed to attack cancer, or if the poison is of a small enough dose to help your body develop antibodies, if the poison is arsenic and is designed to kill parasites, if the rat poison is in the pill form warfarin and I am taking it to prevent blood clots.

The list can go on and on. Poisons have their purpose. So to learning from poisonous theology is beneficial. If it wasn't then why do we learn about various heresies in seminary and why are we examined on our knowledge of such heresies during ordination examination?

Being obtuse isn't the way to go on this one. You know precisely what was meant by the poison analogy. He can very well learn of those religions without participating in them. There are books abounding on the subject.