Is cooking/preparing food on the Sabbath Day an issue or non-issue?

[Peairtach]

See the above Q.

 

[Herald]

If you have a scruple in that area, it's an issue. If you don't, then it's not.

 

[Blue Tick]

One way to answer this is to have an attitude of how are we best to prepare for the Lord's Day. Is it sinful to cook on the Lord's Day, no. Is it wise to prepare a banquet that's going to put excessive burdens on those preparing and cleaning the meal, no it's not wise.

 

[rbcbob]

See the above Q.

WLC 117 How is the sabbath or the Lord's day to be sanctified? A. The sabbath or Lord's day is to be sanctified by an holy resting all the day, not only from such works as are at all times sinful, but even from such worldly employments and recreations as are on other days lawful; and making it our delight to spend the whole time (except so much of it as is to be taken up in works of necessity and mercy) in the publick and private exercises of God's worship: and, to that end, we are to prepare our hearts, and with such foresight, diligence, and moderation, to dispose and seasonably dispatch our worldly business, that we may be the more free and fit for the duties of that day.

 

[Peairtach]

One way to answer this is to have an attitude of how are we best to prepare for the Lord's Day. Is it sinful to cook on the Lord's Day, no. Is it wise to prepare a banquet that's going to put excessive burdens on those preparing and cleaning the meal, no it's not wise.

Yes. One of the things that made me raise the Q is that J.Douma in his excellent book on the 10C says that the Sabbath Day should be a feast day, I presume for body as well as soul. I believe this because of what it commemmorates and anticipates.

The key thing is to get a balance between it being a feast day, and yet also keep labour to a minimum.

 

[Blue Tick]

One way to answer this is to have an attitude of how are we best to prepare for the Lord's Day. Is it sinful to cook on the Lord's Day, no. Is it wise to prepare a banquet that's going to put excessive burdens on those preparing and cleaning the meal, no it's not wise.

Yes. One of the things that made me raise the Q is that J.Douma in his excellent book on the 10C says that the Sabbath Day should be a feast day, I presume for body as well as soul. I believe this because of what it commemmorates and anticipates.

The key thing is to get a balance between it being a feast day, and yet also keep labour to a minimum.

I'm not familar with J.Douma, however, I would look at it as a day of rest and a day of worship to gather with God's people. A feast if you will to delight in God, but everyday we should delight in his goodness.

 

[Scott1]

Matthew 12

1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.

2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

4How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

9And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:

10And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

13Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

14Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

15But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

There is a lot in the passage, but it includes things our Lord has explicitly told us about the sabbath day.

I understand the "plucking" of the ears of corn (pulling them off the stock, shucking them in preparation to eat) as bearing on your question. Food preparation is permitted on the sabbath (as is doing mercy good).

Does that mean there is no qualification, or no other consideration? Can one could spend the entire day focused on food preparation and still keep the sabbath? No. I take it to mean ordinary eating and food preparation are okay on the sabbath, but should not be the focus of the day, nor should there be undue preparation time or effort (as the Catechism alludes to).

I would add a further qualification that seems in line with the Confession and Catechism's summary of doctrine:

Our thoughts and words ought not be unduly focused on eating or food preparation on the Lord's Day either.

After all, "holy" means setting apart from the ordinary, common focus of the rest of the week and "sabbath" literally means "ceasing" from the ordinary work and entertainment seeking that fills much of the other six days.

Is this addressing the point your asking in your post question?

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

Once, while I was in the military in the early 70's, I was invited to the home of a rabbi for their Sabbath meal. I was served a bean casserole, which he explained was typical of traditional Sabbath fare. In days before electricity and timer ovens, such dishes were prepared in clay containers placed in coals or stone ovens before the Sabbath begins, cooked and kept warm until served. Orthodox Jews have no problem with work done in preparation and anticipation of the Sabbath, like setting timers on appliances. Such severe restrictions and scruples do not prevent them from having a rather joyous feast on their Sabbath.

While most of us would have no problem with turning on a switch or igniting a flame on the Lord’s Day, we might learn some things from Jewish practice of avoiding labor. Perhaps the Lord’s Day is a time for slow cooker, oven casseroles, stews, and stir fry, which may be prepared for larger numbers, anticipating possible Lord’s Day hospitality, with much of the work done in advance and a minimum of labor to place on the table after worship. A nice roast in the crock pot, a micro-waved vegetable, some good bread, and a bottle of wine, with a prepared desert make a feast indeed.

When I had Lord’s Day dinner at the home of a Scottish Free Church minister, I noted his special assistance to his wife that day, that she might have some rest also when they had guests at the manse. Isn’t the Lord’s Day a good time for everyone to pitch in so no one person bears the full burden of meal preparation and clean up on the Lord’s Day.

 

[rbcbob]

Once, while I was in the military in the early 70's, I was invited to the home of a rabbi for their Sabbath meal. I was served a bean casserole, which he explained was typical of traditional Sabbath fare. In days before electricity and timer ovens, such dishes were prepared in clay containers placed in coals or stone ovens before the Sabbath begins, cooked and kept warm until served. Orthodox Jews have no problem with work done in preparation and anticipation of the Sabbath, like setting timers on appliances. Such severe restrictions and scruples do not prevent them from having a rather joyous feast on their Sabbath.

While most of us would have no problem with turning on a switch or igniting a flame on the Lord’s Day, we might learn some things from Jewish practice of avoiding labor. Perhaps the Lord’s Day is a time for slow cooker, oven casseroles, stews, and stir fry, which may be prepared for larger numbers, anticipating possible Lord’s Day hospitality, with much of the work done in advance and a minimum of labor to place on the table after worship. A nice roast in the crock pot, a micro-waved vegetable, some good bread, and a bottle of wine, with a prepared desert make a feast indeed.

When I had Lord’s Day dinner at the home of a Scottish Free Church minister, I noted his special assistance to his wife that day, that she might have some rest also when they had guests at the manse. Isn’t the Lord’s Day a good time for everyone to pitch in so no one person bears the full burden of meal preparation and clean up on the Lord’s Day.

Thank you pastor Ferrell, that was very encouraging!

 

[busdriver72]

It depends.
What are you cooking, and am I invited?

 

[tcalbrecht]

See the above Q.

WLC 117 How is the sabbath or the Lord's day to be sanctified? A. The sabbath or Lord's day is to be sanctified by an holy resting all the day, not only from such works as are at all times sinful, but even from such worldly employments and recreations as are on other days lawful; and making it our delight to spend the whole time (except so much of it as is to be taken up in works of necessity and mercy) in the publick and private exercises of God's worship: and, to that end, we are to prepare our hearts, and with such foresight, diligence, and moderation, to dispose and seasonably dispatch our worldly business, that we may be the more free and fit for the duties of that day.

I do not see eating and drinking, or the preparation thereof, as "worldly business". I think it is just what it says. See earlier reference to “worldly employments and recreations”.

The old covenant holy days were feast days, where God's blessings were enjoyed in a particular way. The Christian Sabbath is the analog of those holy days. As I see it feasting is a proper part of the day.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 03:37:22 EST-----

Once, while I was in the military in the early 70's, I was invited to the home of a rabbi for their Sabbath meal. I was served a bean casserole, which he explained was typical of traditional Sabbath fare. In days before electricity and timer ovens, such dishes were prepared in clay containers placed in coals or stone ovens before the Sabbath begins, cooked and kept warm until served. Orthodox Jews have no problem with work done in preparation and anticipation of the Sabbath, like setting timers on appliances. Such severe restrictions and scruples do not prevent them from having a rather joyous feast on their Sabbath.

While most of us would have no problem with turning on a switch or igniting a flame on the Lord’s Day, we might learn some things from Jewish practice of avoiding labor. Perhaps the Lord’s Day is a time for slow cooker, oven casseroles, stews, and stir fry, which may be prepared for larger numbers, anticipating possible Lord’s Day hospitality, with much of the work done in advance and a minimum of labor to place on the table after worship. A nice roast in the crock pot, a micro-waved vegetable, some good bread, and a bottle of wine, with a prepared desert make a feast indeed.

When I had Lord’s Day dinner at the home of a Scottish Free Church minister, I noted his special assistance to his wife that day, that she might have some rest also when they had guests at the manse. Isn’t the Lord’s Day a good time for everyone to pitch in so no one person bears the full burden of meal preparation and clean up on the Lord’s Day.

I've seen the Jewish practice of avoiding labor. When I was young my father had Jewish customers who would leave their wallet by the front door so my father could take out the payment without the customer having to touch the wallet. It seem to me it is the very sort of false externalizing of religion condemned by Jesus in places like Mark 7.

Not everyone views cooking/cleanup, etc, even for large numbers, as a burden. It can be an opportunity for great fellowship. For some folks the kitchen, not the living room, is the place for Christian intercourse.

 

[rbcbob]

WLC 117 How is the sabbath or the Lord's day to be sanctified? A. The sabbath or Lord's day is to be sanctified by an holy resting all the day, not only from such works as are at all times sinful, but even from such worldly employments and recreations as are on other days lawful; and making it our delight to spend the whole time (except so much of it as is to be taken up in works of necessity and mercy) in the publick and private exercises of God's worship: and, to that end, we are to prepare our hearts, and with such foresight, diligence, and moderation, to dispose and seasonably dispatch our worldly business, that we may be the more free and fit for the duties of that day.

Tom said-I do not see eating and drinking, or the preparation thereof, as "worldly business". I think it is just what it says. See earlier reference to “worldly employments and recreations”.

My point was to emphasize forethought, diligence etc.

WLC#118
Why is the charge of keeping the sabbath more specially directed to governors of families, and other superiors? A. The charge of keeping the sabbath is more specially directed to governors of families, and other superiors, because they are bound not only to keep it themselves but to see that it is observed by all those that are under their charge; and because they are prone ofttimes to hinder them by employments of their own.

If the masters of the home are to be sensitive to the Sabbath keeping of even the servants, then how much more that of his dear wife?

 

[Paul Nowlan]

Does Exodus 16 and the 10 commandments still apply:

And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.

23And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

24And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.

25And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.

26Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.

27And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

28And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

29See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

30So the people rested on the seventh day.

Contrary to popular opinion, you don't have to cook on Sunday. You can eat fruit, vegetables, cold cuts, and meals baked the day before.

The sabbath rules fall under the 10 commandments. Do the 10 commandments still apply in full?

This is a crucial question.

 

[rbcbob]

The sabbath rules fall under the 10 commandments. Do the 10 commandments still apply in full?

Yes. The Moral Law has not been rescinded.

 

[Scott1]

Remember, there are three kinds of law:

1) moral
2) civil
3) ceremonial

The Westminster Confession summarizes them as follows:

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
[emphasis added]

I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]
….

The Law given Israel about specific food preparation as they were wandering about in the desert (God providing manna in a double portion the night before the sabbath) is civil law given to Israel, which expired with the nation.

The fourth commandment, Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy, is moral perpetual law, binding on all men in all generations. (This is true of all ten commandments, in all their broad application to thought, word and deed).

A principle (advance preparation) still applies as a general (equitable) principle. Not the strict application as given Israel for the purposes God had there, but an equitable principle remains.

The Westminster Divines, summarizing the doctrine of Scripture pick that up in Chapter XXI relating to the Sabbath.

Chapter XXI
Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day
[emphasis added]

....

VIII. This Sabbath is to be kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works, words, and thoughts about their wordly employments and recreations,[38] but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.[39]

 

[Peairtach]

Dear Paul,

These are some of the cosiderations that got me thinking on the Q.

(a) God told the Israelites to prepare and cook the Manna on the Friday, apparently. Did he?

(b) God told the Israelites not to build a fire from scratch on the Sabbath.

(c) The orthodox Jews have a stricter attitiude to cooking on the Sabbath than many Sabbatarian Christians. And to lighting fires.

(d) Growing up in a Sabbatarian environment this was not an issue for our family, but some Christians we knew would serve cold meat, prepare potatoes etc the night before, pile up the dishes after meals and leave them to be done on Monday, etc.

(e) Dabney mentions this in his Systematic Theology as an area where Christians could tighten up.

(f) Jochem Douma says that the Sabbath should be celebrated as a Feast Day, and Jews kept their best food for that day according to Alfred Edersheim.

(g) How many of the instances when Jesus was reclining at food in the Gospels can be traced to the Sabbath?

(h) Advances in technology may mean that we can enjoy things on the Sabbath that our forebears couldn't.

(i) Food preparation, cooking, cleaning up can sometimes deprive the ladies - or whoever's cooking/cleaning dishes, of some of the time that could be devoted to spiritual things. I agree with Tom also that a lot of good fellowship can be had in the kitchen as well as the dining room/living room.

I have my own thoughts and opinions on these things, and wouldn't necessarily agree with the non-coooking approach to the Sabbath, but just wanted to canvass some views/insights.

 

[rbcbob]

I have my own thoughts and opinions on these things, and wouldn't necessarily agree with the non-coooking approach to the Sabbath, but just wanted to canvass some views/insights.

I am perhaps in a fair amount of agreement with Richard here. I believe that the Westminster LC is stressing the wisdom of preparing as much as is reasonable prior to the Sabbath in order that the day not be unnecessarily encumbered by labor that would come about due to lack of foresight.

 

[Scott1]

I really think the applicable part here is the fourth commandment, as all the ten commandments, fully applies to us today but we are free from the strict detail application contained in the civil law given to Israel.

We are not "free" to disobey the sabbath (Lord's Day) by ordinarily working and recreating (mercy and necessity exceptions apply) or focusing on those things we ordinarily do the rest of the week, but we are "free" from the civil laws and ceremonial laws that were attached to it for Old Testament Israel as "a church under age."

 

[Paul Nowlan]

If you have a scruple in that area, it's an issue. If you don't, then it's not.

So Exodus 16 -as it relates to the 10 commandments -is not applicable if you feel no guilt?

Again, the issue is do the 10 commandments - and moral law - still apply *in full*. Does the Sabbath law apply *in full.*

Can I consecrate my day to NFL football and Sunday home cooking and then condemn you for working a Walmart on Sunday to support your family. The operative word here is consecrate. I believe it means *dedicate in full*.

Or has Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law and now that we are led by the Holy Spirit, we have a more general duty to love and honour God, love your neighbour (which BTW is in the OT too.)

I have attended Pentecostal, Dutch Reformed, RCA, and non-denominational churches. This is the biggest question I've seen in every church. This one issue reveals more hypocrisy than anything else I've ever seen.

A Christian's entire life is affected by his/her view on this question.

Do the Sabbath laws apply *in full.*

Oh, it is not an act of necessity to cook on Sunday. Fresh fruit and vegetables, cold cuts, pre-cooked meals can be tasty and good for you.


Favourite Sabbath quote:
It's OK for me to eat at MacDonalds on Sunday because I'm not the one working and the MacDonald's worker is the one violating the Sabbath.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 07:22:40 EST-----

You people should notice, I am asking questions.

Do all the Sabbath laws still apply? Should we attend to cooking *beforehand.* as the Bible and WCF suggest?

What does it mean to consecrate the Sabbath to God?

Do the 10 commandments still apply today?

P.S. cooking can be hard work, even today

 

[rbcbob]

If you have a scruple in that area, it's an issue. If you don't, then it's not.

So Exodus 16 -as it relates to the 10 commandments -is not applicable if you feel no guilt?

Again, the issue is do the 10 commandments - and moral law - still apply *in full*. Does the Sabbath law apply *in full.*

Can I consecrate my day to NFL football and Sunday home cooking and then condemn you for working a Walmart on Sunday to support your family. The operative word here is consecrate. I believe it means *dedicate in full*.

Or has Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law and now that we are led by the Holy Spirit, we have a more general duty to love and honour God, love your neighbour (which BTW is in the OT too.)

I have attended Pentecostal, Dutch Reformed, RCA, and non-denominational churches. This is the biggest question I've seen in every church. This one issue reveals more hypocrisy than anything else I've ever seen.

A Christian's entire life is affected by his/her view on this question.

Do the Sabbath laws apply *in full.*

Oh, it is not an act of necessity to cook on Sunday. Fresh fruit and vegetables, cold cuts, pre-cooked meals can be tasty and good for you.


Favourite Sabbath quote:
It's OK for me to eat at MacDonalds on Sunday because I'm not the one working and the MacDonald's worker is the one violating the Sabbath.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 07:22:40 EST-----

You people should notice, I am asking questions.

Do all the Sabbath laws still apply? Should we attend to cooking *beforehand.* as the Bible and WCF suggest?

What does it mean to consecrate the Sabbath to God?

Do the 10 commandments still apply today?

Brother, it might be helpful if you would notice that your questions have been answered!

 

[Peairtach]

I think when we look at how the Rabbis interpreted the injunction to cook/prepare Manna on Friday, not to light a fire on the Sabbath, and not to go out on the Sabbath (which was given because the Israelites would get up to no good on the Sabbath e.g. looking for Manna or other things to do), and then look at them again in the light of the fact that Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath, that can be quite instructive.

 

[Paul Nowlan]

Bob, yes I see, I see. Thank you.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 07:31:16 EST-----

I think when we look at how the Rabbis interpreted the injunction to cook/prepare Manna on Friday, not to light a fire on the Sabbath, and not to go out on the Sabbath (which was given because the Israelites would get up to no good on the Sabbath e.g. looking for Manna or other things to do), and then look at them again in the light of the fact that Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath, that can be quite instructive.

Ah, so that makes it proper for me to cook on Sunday - and violate Exodus 16 and the spirit of the 10 commandments.?

This sabbath law was geared to those sinful Jews looking for fresh manna. This Sabbath law doesn't apply to me - a deeply spiritual Christian who would never watch football on Sunday?

I remember my Mother's home cooked meals. They were hard work.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 07:39:37 EST-----

Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath, that can be quite instructive.

Excellent quote.

Does this quote apply to:

- a man working at Walmart on Sunday to feed his family

- a woman cooking a beautiful dinner for her family on Sunday

- a father watching the Steelers on Sunday with his family

- a student studying law on Sunday in order to free up time to read the Bible for 15 minutes every day

These are crucial questions, because I believe each is in violation of the Sabbath Laws and WCF - though each has good intentions.

Most people I have met don't think about this issue. They just condemn Sabbath breakers - and then procede to break the Sabbath.

I myself have struggled for years with this very very basic question.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 07:42:13 EST-----

I also think that hypocrisy on this issue brings much shame to the visible church in the eyes of the world. Where do you stand: Does Exodus 16 apply to us? A simple but crucial question. The entire concept of moral law vs ceremonial law hinges on it. Unless, of course, you think this particular moral law only applies to those sinful Jews - not us holy 21st century Christians.

 

[rbcbob]

Bob, yes I see, I see. Thank you.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 07:31:16 EST-----

I think when we look at how the Rabbis interpreted the injunction to cook/prepare Manna on Friday, not to light a fire on the Sabbath, and not to go out on the Sabbath (which was given because the Israelites would get up to no good on the Sabbath e.g. looking for Manna or other things to do), and then look at them again in the light of the fact that Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath, that can be quite instructive.

Ah, so that makes it proper for me to cook on Sunday - and violate Exodus 16 and the spirit of the 10 commandments.?

This sabbath law was geared to those sinful Jews looking for fresh manna. This Sabbath law doesn't apply to me - a deeply spiritual Christian who would never watch football on Sunday?

I remember my Mother's home cooked meals. They were hard work.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 07:39:37 EST-----

Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath, that can be quite instructive.

Excellent quote.

Does this quote apply to:

- a man working at Walmart on Sunday to feed his family

- a woman cooking a beautiful dinner for her family on Sunday

- a father watching the Steelers on Sunday with his family

- a student studying law on Sunday in order to free up time to read the Bible for 15 minutes every day

These are crucial questions, because I believe each is in violation of the Sabbath Laws and WCF - though each has good intentions.

Most people I have met don't think about this issue. They just condemn Sabbath breakers - and then procede to break the Sabbath.

I myself have struggled for years with this very very basic question.

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 07:42:13 EST-----

I also think that hypocrisy on this issue brings much shame to the visible church in the eyes of the world.

I agree that these are crucial questions. As a pastor seeking to do good to Christ's sheep I have agonized over the application of these principles.

1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

 

[Paul Nowlan]

Question: I believe I read once that Jesus said it is good to do good on the Sabbath. Is this true or I am I mistaken?

I believe it was in the context of healing a man's withered arm? Is this Biblical?

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 08:06:28 EST-----

Bob, you said, "For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
__________________

Wow, Bob, the implications of this are staggering.

This seems to fly in the face of:

do and do, do and do
rule on rule, rule on rule

Christians throughout the ages seem often - but not always - to act like heartless lawyers.

I don't think they start out that way, but the fear of God's wrath encourages them to think of God as the big referee in the sky. .

In the late 90s, I struggled deeply with rules.

Then, one night I strangely woke up, sat in my easy chair, opened the Bible and read:

And what does God expect of you?
To act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with the Lord.

Perhaps we shouldn't focus on the hundreds of Biblical laws. Perhaps we should focus on 7 words: love and honour God, love your neighbour.

Perhaps as a new creature in Christ, we may deem it acceptable to take our kids to a ball game on Sunday and have a hot dog - even though it clearly violate Exodus 16. Perhaps as a "new creature" Jesus will help us "act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with the Lord."

Perhaps, Bob, our good intentions and humility may score us some points with the Lord.

(That's why I thought Jenny's POW story was cool -even though these dreadful men violated the precise rules of Communion.)

-----Added 8/25/2009 at 08:20:53 EST-----

P.S David was not always a good rule keeper (re Bathsheba, consecrated bread....) But he had a heart for God.

The Sabbath issue is tricky. Its not just about "not working." I fear many have condemned themselves when they have condemned others. The OT laws were tough - a man got executed for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.

Has Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath as per Hebrews 4 and 8?

Have the physical aspects of the Sabbath been fulfilled and are we now "resting in spirit" in Jesus? I have no doubt that the majority here say no. If so, don't cook on Sunday and violate Exodus 16. It really isn't an act of necessity.

 

[21st Century Calvinist]

My Free Presbyterian relatives used to prepare almost all the food on Saturday night- the soup made, vegetables peeled and in the pan, dessert made and the meat wrapped in foil in the fridge. On Sunday it was minimal work. The dishes were loaded into the dishwasher (which didn't get turned on until Monday). Activities like knitting or sewing were never done either on the Sabbath. It was a quite and restful day.
If I plan to have guests on Sunday I will generally prepare as much as possible the night before.
I usually try to plan ahead on Saturday and make sure that I have the food in, that there is gas in the car, etc.

 

[Paul Nowlan]

My Free Presbyterian relatives used to prepare almost all the food on Saturday night- the soup made, vegetables peeled and in the pan, dessert made and the meat wrapped in foil in the fridge. On Sunday it was minimal work. The dishes were loaded into the dishwasher (which didn't get turned on until Monday). Activities like knitting or sewing were never done either on the Sabbath. It was a quite and restful day.
If I plan to have guests on Sunday I will generally prepare as much as possible the night before.
I usually try to plan ahead on Saturday and make sure that I have the food in, that there is gas in the car, etc.

Ah, talk the talk, walk the walk.

Exodus 16 is quite clear, cooking is to not be done on the Sabbath.

For most Americans, cooking on the Sabbath is not an act of necessity. You can cook on Saturday, eat fruits, vegetables, cold cuts, juices, milk, cereal, etc

Since when do "Acts of Mercy" entail doing non-essential work on the Sabbath in violation of Exodus 16?

A previous poster implied that if it doesn't violate your conscience, then cook on the Sabbath. Since when does our sinful conscience overrule Exodus 16?

Another previous poster said that the Jews were up to know good on the Sabbath; that's why it OK for us holy Christians to violate exodus 16. This is arrogance pure and simple.

And yet, if a poor man works at Walmart on Sunday to support his family he is in danger of being cannon fodder.

The Sabbath is a big deal. Like I said, a Jew got killed for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.

Here's a question:

Some have said that Jesus fulfilled the physical aspects of the Sabbath and that Christians are resting in spirit *today* and every day in the Sabbath (re Hebrews 4 and 8)

I have no doubt few agree with this statement.

But I suggest that maybe cooking on the Sabbath is in violation of the Lord command to consecrate the Sabbath to the Lord and his direct command in Exodus 16 and one of the 10 commandments - or moral law as defined by the WCF.

Talk the talk, walk the walk

These issues have plagued me for years. How do some Christians make direct Biblical commands so complex that they condemn one man for breaking one Sabbath law to feed his family and yet justify breaking another Sabbath law (Exodus 16) so that they can feed their own obese body hot roast beef on the Sabbath.

Does this make sense?

If you want to cook on the Sabbath that's your business. But think twice before you condemn a poor man for working on the Sabbath. This poor man may think the Sabbath is spiritual and he may rest in every day with a joyful, peaceful heart.

 

[tcalbrecht]

Exodus 16 is quite clear, cooking is to not be done on the Sabbath.

It is also quite clear that we are not to travel outside our homes on the Sabbath; "Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." (v. 29)

Walk the walk?

 

[matt01]

If you have a scruple in that area, it's an issue. If you don't, then it's not.

No, or what Elder Brown wrote.

 

[Paul Nowlan]

Exodus 16 is quite clear, cooking is to not be done on the Sabbath.

It is also quite clear that we are not to travel outside our homes on the Sabbath; "Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." (v. 29)

Walk the walk?

Those Sabbath laws are quite tough aren't they?

How can a Christian justify going to church?

He does so by saying going to church is an act on devotion to God and part of his consecration, or Sabbath dedication, to God. I think every Christian would agree to this.

I would suggest that traveling outside the home to go to MacDonalds, Yankee Stadium, the mall, etc. is not consecrated to God - at least under OT law.

And God most certainly expected the Jews to walk the walk, hence a man got killed for gathering firewood.

Tom, please tell me which of the many Sabbath OT laws still apply and which don't. Tom, please explain why certain OT Sabbath commands expired and others remain in force. Do you really need to eat freshly cooked foods on Sunday?

And yes Tom these OT laws can be tough - and not just the ceremonial and civil laws.


-----Added 8/25/2009 at 10:26:04 EST-----

If you have a scruple in that area, it's an issue. If you don't, then it's not.

No, or what Elder Brown wrote.

Ah, if you think breaking Exodus 16 is OK, it is OK. Exodus 12, 13, 14, 15 are still in force, but Exodus 16 that's null and void.

A new Christian says he feels no scruple about watching p0rn0graphy. Therefore, he says it is OK to watch p0rn0graphy. How is this different than you saying you have no scruple about cooking on the Sabbath even though this violates Exodus 16, part of one of the 10 commandments and moral law.

What do you think about the other Sabbath laws. Have you ever judged a man for working at Walmart on Sunday?

I have been told that the OT has 613 laws. Has anyone ever listed these laws, split them in moral, ceremonial and civil, and decided which still apply and which don't.


I think this quote applies to this Sabbath law discussion:
What W C Fields said when caught reading the Bible:
“I'm looking for loopholes.”


Good night.

 

[tcalbrecht]

Those Sabbath laws are quite tough aren't they?

How can a Christian justify going to church?

He does so by saying going to church is an act on devotion to God and part of his consecration, or Sabbath dedication, to God. I think every Christian would agree to this.

So, In other words,, in spite of God’s explicit command and your zeal for the details of Exodus 16, you can rationalize a trip to church based on circumstances that are different from the ancient Hebrews.

You don’t think God knew that when He gave the commands in Exodus 16?

Isn't it possible that there was a change in the command when the wilderness experience of the ancient Hebrews changed and the manna stopped?