Inviting Gays to Church?

Discussion in 'Church Order' started by ForHisGlory, Nov 25, 2008.

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  1. MOSES

    MOSES Puritan Board Freshman

    The original poster asked us to share our thoughts: Ok.

    Godly men who happen to be of the Federal Vision camp would practically end up being burned at the stake, let alone welcome in some of your churches..(i imagine)....BUT....the sodomintes are welcome with open arms (sitting in the pew week to week, together, in common union and fellowship with the people of God)!!!

    God required the state to execute the sexually immoral (per God's Law)...and for the church to cast out the sexually immoral (per 1Cor 5).

    Things just seem a little bacwards in some of the churches today (eg, Godly men being cast out, and sodomites being brought in).


    NOTE: And NO I am not an FV
     
  2. turmeric

    turmeric Megerator

    My friend, there's nothing godly about preaching a false gospel! Nobody's burning anything but turkeys, today, but FV people are welcome to come to the church I attend, same as gays, but they're not welcome to preach! But then, neither am I...:)
     
  3. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    That's right. That's why Jesus lavished praise upon the "godly" Pharisees, and advised the churches to execute the Samaritan woman, Mary Magdalene, and Zaccheus.

    And NO I am not pro-homosexual.
     
  4. MOSES

    MOSES Puritan Board Freshman

    For some reason I just really do not think that Paul would of tolerated "Gay's" IN the church.


    Now...is there some sort of "secret formula" in the above scripture that would lead us to believe that the sexually immoral should be welcomed IN and AMONG the Chruch...just because they are not believers?
    If sodomite "believers" are NOT welcome, according to Paul...Then surely sodomite "un-believers" are NOT welcome.
    Think about it. Imagine a Church that kicks out a believer in Jesus Christ who is sexually immoral...YET....welcomes an unbeliever who is grossly more immoral.


    These people are in the WORLD not in the church. That's why Paul says it would be impossible not to associate with them in the world.

    We are also to avoid even the appearance of evil. Imagine two gay men walking in and out of your church every week holding hands...That would be a scandalous evil that should be avoided.

    Note: The above is not about church membership...It is about those who are welcome IN the church, and the fellowship of the saints during the weekly observance of the Lord's supper...The sexual immoral, in this case Sodomites, are clearly NOT welcome IN the Church.
    Question for you who would welcome "gay's" in your church week in and week out: Do you have communion services ever? Do your purge out the leaven, and kick out the evil person, as Paul say's, before you all partake?
    (or do you answer "no...rather...we just don't let the "gays" eat the little cracker, or drink the little cup of wine"....:rolleyes:)


    Note: God saves the wickedest and vileist of sinners, like myself...but he does so by the gospel which is preached IN the world to every creature under heaven. Get off your lazy butt, and go preach the gospel (I AM TALKING TO EVERYONE...this is what we should all be doing)** to the sexually immoral if that is what you want to do...but bringing them into the church is not permitted, as far as I can tell from tota scriptura.
    Agan..the OPer was asking for our thoughts..that is mine. I'm open to being corrected if a biblical argument can be given.

    **That is motivational language..not an insult.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2008
  5. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    I would not have an unrepentant homosexual as a member of a church either. You are conflating categories. There is a difference between neglecting discipline of members (which is what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians) and having the Word preached openly to all. But the church is a place where sinners of all stripes and sorts can come to hear the gospel. We do not shut the doors to any one. After all, it is the preaching of the gospel that is the main means of evangelism - one might even say "especially."

    I also do not think Paul would have let FV types in the church - see Galatians and Philippians for a start. "Godly FV" is like "dry water" or "wise fool."
     
  6. MOSES

    MOSES Puritan Board Freshman

    :think:
     
  7. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    Let me edit:

    I do not think Paul would have let FV types remain as members (or become members) in the church.
     
  8. MOSES

    MOSES Puritan Board Freshman

    I'm just throwing this out there for something to think about.
    Another interesting thing..."Gay's" are not even allowed on this forum, per the rules....(but they are allowed in the church!)
     
  9. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    Arminians are not allowed on this forum either. Nor are those who persist in not being a member of a church. Nor are those who will not affirm one of the Board's Confessions (WCF or 1689).

    This board is far more restrictive than a church building. It serves a completely different purpose.
     
  10. MOSES

    MOSES Puritan Board Freshman

    Thank you...I stand corrected.
    It is not "interesting" then as I originally suggested.
     
  11. ForHisGlory

    ForHisGlory Puritan Board Freshman

    I think Moses is bringing some interesting points to the discussion.

    I am a member of a very large church and struggle with how this should be handled specifically within our own church. I ponder how the early church, when 3000 were added in one day, how people even recognized each other as believers and unbelievers and implemented church discipline. We have thousands who visit our church every Sunday and I certainly cannot distinguish between "member/believer" vs. "non-member/unbeliever" (this is a huge drawback to a large church.....but I love the preaching of God's word here!).

    We also have many visitors who visit our church every week......which is a great thing. However, I wonder what they would think of our theology and views on homosexuality (as homosexuality is not specifically preached against every Sunday) should they see a gay couple in our church? We certainly preach sin and the gospel consistently from the pulpit, but if people are seeing the gosepl "lived" in a different manner from what they think are "believers", won't this over time present problems and an unpure church?
     
  12. Zenas

    Zenas Snow Miser

    An important thing to remember is the difference between members and non-members of the Church.

    A gay non-member is welcome. A gay member has some explaining to do and may be asked to leave.
     
  13. Herald

    Herald Administrator Staff Member

    Brent,

    How do you know whether a couple is gay? Not all homosexuals carry themselves in an effeminate manner. What about adulterers, rapists or sexual offenders? Do they announce themselves when they visit your church? I can think of other sins that carry with them public stigma if they were known.

    If the Word of God is preached in power and truth from your pulpit, it will have effect on those who listen. The saints will be encouraged and the sinner convicted. Your church should have elders who are responsible for the spiritual welfare of the flock. If they notice threats to the flock then they should intervene. Hopefully your church has a plan for visitors who become regular attenders. They should be visiting these people, and learning more about them. If they learn that an attender is engaged in serious sin, they have a responsibility to share with them what the Word has to say about their sin and call them either to repentance (if they profess Christ) or faith in Christ.

    Our Lord associated with the dregs of society. He did not approve of their lifestyles or condone their sin. That the Christ of God would talk to the woman at the well, and announce to her eternal life, in spite of her adulteries, is a testimony to the redeeming power of the gospel over even the most heinous sins. Our Lord was not concerned with appearances, but with compassion towards the lost.

    Our churches should let them all in to hear the Word of God. That does not mean we should let them all in to join the church and minister in His name. Aberrant lifestyles and unrepentant sin are reasons for a church to deny membership to those seeking it. In most cases, those participating in such sins will not be drawn to a church that preaches the Word of God. The light exposes their sin, even if it is only to themselves. They will either repent or leave. If they don't repent, and make their sin public, then it is the job of your elders to deal with it quickly and decisively.
     
  14. AThornquist

    AThornquist Puritan Board Doctor

    Moses, are you this passionate about heterosexual non-members in the pews who are contaminated with many sins, including other forms of sexual immorality? Most anti-"Sodomites" aren't. Much of their fire and fury comes down upon homosexuality, while other forms of sexual immorality are just...bad. It's disproportionate. And by the way, it's true that "sodomite" is in the Bible. However, that word holds derogatory connotations these days, and you know that. Do you prefer to call women whores if they sell themselves? What about if someone is struggling with doubting God--do you prefer to call them double-minded?

    And in any case, the passage you quoted refers to those who are sexually immoral and are called BROTHERS, as in those who are members of the local body and are in Christ. If anything, it seems as though the passage you cited contradicts your point. As was said, someone who is gay should be welcomed into the church to hear the Word but NOT ALLOWED to become a member until he or she has repented and become united with Christ.

    Regardless, I hope this post didn't sound overly negative toward you, Moses. It was not my intention to be negative but rather to speak in honesty. What is difficult is the means of communication, really.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2008
  15. ForHisGlory

    ForHisGlory Puritan Board Freshman

    Herald.....(and many others)....Thanks for your comments brother. I appreciate your wisdom. I am not sure how our elder's are trained to handle situations like these...although, now I'm very curious. I'll be meeting with our pastor tomorrow and will ask him then.

    I guess I wasn't sure how the body should be treating this issue, but I feel pretty comfortable with all the answers that have been given here in this thread. It appears that the consensus is: welcome sinners, preach the word in truth, love our neighbors, humbly acknowledge our own sin and rebellion toward God, boast of our saviour's work in our lives, pray, let God work.

    I feel that this is God honoring exhortation. :D
     
  16. Spinningplates2

    Spinningplates2 Puritan Board Freshman

    They are allowed in Church to hear the word preached. That is not to be compared to being in the body of Christ. The same with the Puritan Board, anyone can read posts on this board but there rules of how to become a member.
     
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