Infant Vaccinations

Discussion in 'Family Forum' started by zsmcd, Oct 27, 2015.

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  1. zsmcd

    zsmcd Puritan Board Freshman

    Alright folks, my wife is due Friday and I am looking for info regarding the very heavily debated topic of infant vaccinations. Trying to be wise about making sure my child gets vaccinated if 1. the disease is high risk, still around, and life threatening and 2. the vaccine itself is morally upright. I know there are many vaccines for diseases that are no longer a danger or its a vaccine for a std or something. I also know some vaccines have been created using abortive tissue strands which I would like to stay away from obviously. Any thoughts/insight?
     
  2. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Senior

  3. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    Be weary of all the hype around the dangers of vaccinations which are all over the place. I believe it would be a vary rare thing to seriously consider not doing the shots for your children. One can look into this so deeply that the proper thing to do is avoided by many people. In other words, I believe unless you have some type of rare condition in your family or child's history that precludes vaccination get them vaccinated. Also ask your Dr. if you trust him. :)
     
  4. Paul1976

    Paul1976 Puritan Board Freshman

    The risks of vaccination are exceedingly small compared to the diseases vaccines protect against. From the perspective of the health of your child, the regular set of vaccines is unquestionably a good thing medically (despite some of what you'll read in social media). A second issue is that, when people do not vaccinate their children, they increase the risk of exposing infants who have not yet had vaccines to some really nasty diseases. I wouldn't allow our babies to stay in our churches nursery until they had their first set of vaccines due to the recklessness of some parents who refuse to vaccinate their children, and increase the risk of needlessly spreading potentially fatal, preventable diseases.
     
  5. Edward

    Edward Puritanboard Commissioner

    I'll give two conflicting pieces of advice.

    1) Don't get your medical advice from social media.

    2) Vaccinate your children. The importation of undocumented people from second, third, and fourth world counties ensures that your children will be exposed to diseases that were unknown in this country a generation ago. Vaccines aren't risk free, but they sure beat some of the diseases they protect against.
     
  6. Edward

    Edward Puritanboard Commissioner

  7. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Senior

    Yes, I understand that there is controversy surrounding the delayed vaccine schedule. I recommend Dr. Sears because he speaks specifically to the effectiveness, risks, and prevalent status of each disease as well as the particular risks involved with each vaccine. One can glean a lot of useful information from this book even if one disagrees with his delayed vaccine schedule.
     
  8. AThornquist

    AThornquist Puritan Board Doctor

    My 7 month old daughter contracted German measles (aka rubella) last month because someone didn't get the MMR vaccination; the MMR vac isn't administered until 12-15 months old so it wasn't our fault, but I am more determined than ever to follow our pediatrician's vac advice. I also agree with what was previously stated: don't get your vaccination advice from social media. Much of the fear mongering about vaccinations is laughably unscientific.

    On a somewhat related note, I listened to a very interesting lecture from Dr. Rhonda Patrick--one of the foremost experts on vitamin D--last week, and she explained how, since the 70s, increased autism rates have correlated with increased vitamin D deficiency. She readily admitted--because she is a scientist--that this does not prove causality, but further researcher is worth pursuing to see what this correlation means.
     
  9. Reformed Fox

    Reformed Fox Puritan Board Freshman

    I am not an expert, but my two cents would be to check the intensity of the schedule. Part of the issue are not vaccines per se (many have been around for decades are are acceptably safe) but rather vaccinating against too many diseases too quickly. I had about twice as many vaccinations as a child (1990s) than my parents (1960s). I think the number has at least doubled since then.
     
  10. Jack K

    Jack K Puritan Board Professor

    Vaccinations are an example of an act that serves a communal benefit rather than just an individual benefit. The evidence is strong that the spread of dangerous diseases halts dramatically when strong vaccination programs are in place—that's the communal benefit. In such a situation, the individual benefit of being vaccinated starts to disappear. It may even be in an individual's best interests not to risk getting vaccinated and instead to trust the widespread vaccinations of others, which create a generally healthy community, to protect you as an individual.

    The problem with this kind of thinking is that it is selfish. It means benefiting from a risk that others are taking without being willing to take that risk yourself as a part of the overall effort to protect the whole community. Christians, being unselfish, should be first in line for vaccinations... not because we've researched the risk/benefit to ourselves individually, but because we care about the benefit to everyone.
     
  11. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    More info on Dr Sears:

    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/03/19/after-all-this-time-dr-bob-sears-finally-tips-his-hand-on-vaccines-part-iv/

    http://www.immunize.org/concerns/offit_moser2009.pdf

    https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/cashing-in-on-fear-the-danger-of-dr-sears/

    http://www.immunize.org/talking-about-vaccines/countering-dr-sears.asp

    When Christians latch on to sketchy beliefs (like Babywise or the Anti-Vax movement, or Moon Landing denial) they destroy their credibility and folks may not believe them when they start spouting off about a Jewish carpenter dying 2,000 years ago for the sins of mankind.
     
  12. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Here are more links about autism and vaccines NOT being linked:

    http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/yes-autism-rate-rising-vaccines-caused-vaccines/

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/04/22/3650089/massive-study-autism-vaccine/

    https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/new-meta-analysis-confirms-no-association-between-vaccines-and-autism


    But...I know, I know.... there must be a massive cover-up by the "Big Vaccine" industry to suppress the real truth (thank God for all the activist housewives who can still educate people about vaccine dangers through Facebook ;) ).

    p.s. My wife and I are R.N.s and my wife worked in public health, head of the Pulaski County infectious diseases dept while I was in the army. So...we are already suspect because we have worked for the "establishment" in the past.
     
  13. johnny

    johnny Puritan Board Sophomore

    Some good friends of mine are into alternative medicine.
    They refused the vacines and all their kids caught whooping cough.
    This happened in Brisbane, and they were pretty unrepentant about it.
    Nobody died but some were hospitalised, took ages to get over.

    It was a weird couple of months.
     
  14. Mr. Bultitude

    Mr. Bultitude Puritan Board Freshman

    Some info on the abortive cells issue.

    I found two charts with information on which vaccines contain abortive tissue and what alternatives are available. Use the one that you find more readable. (The second is the one that pediatricians would find most useful.)

    Personally, I would urge you to still vaccinate, even with those that use fetal cell lines and have no alternative. Vaccinations are extremely important to public health, and to your child's health and his/her peers. I'd urge you, at the very least, to talk to your doctor and pastor and to pray about it.
     
  15. Mr. Bultitude

    Mr. Bultitude Puritan Board Freshman

    With regard to the other points you raised, the only vaccine that has to do with STDs is the HPV vaccine, which the CDC recommends for age 13-18.

    All of the vaccinations recommended by the CDC are for high-risk and life-threatening illnesses:

    And any disease that's "no longer a danger" is only so because of vaccines -- so it's still important to vaccinate in those instances:

    If you're concerned about overloading your child's immune system, don't be:

     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  16. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Senior

    Neither the companies that manufacture vaccines, nor the doctors have the same care invested in your children than you do. When it comes to making decisions for my children, I want to be informed to the best of my ability because I'm invested in my children in a unique way.

    I have a sister, now a teenager, who has incurable epilepsy. She started having seizures shortly after receiving a round of vaccines. I understand that most people don't have problems with the vaccines, but my sister's condition has turned my family's life upside-down. She has multiple seizures every day. She convulses, grinds her teeth, falls and hits her head, chokes on her food. After bad seizures she can hardly speak. She cannot concentrate. She has to wear a padded hat most of the time. Must I go on? After trying everything, the doctors said the only option left is exploratory brain surgery.

    I personally know another boy who did not have a major reaction to being vaccinated, but the toddler regressed in his verbal abilities after each vaccination.

    I understand that for most people who are vaccinated, life goes on as normal. However, if you spent a day with my family, you would probably want to spend some time researching the risks/benefits of each vaccine prior to use, not simply taking the advice of the medical practitioner. After all, at the end of the day, you are the one responsible for your child's health, not the pediatrician or vaccine manufacturer.

    I am not anti-vaccine. Vaccines have done amazing and unprecedented things for public health. For that I am grateful. But are we over-vaccinating? I would venture to say yes.

    I am not a conspiracy theorist, nor do I think that the "establishment" is out to get us. I do not read Jenny McCarthy. But, big money is involved. Where there is big money, history has demonstrated that dishonesty, scare tactics and skewed statistics are often used and abused.

    It seems short-sighted and ignorant when I hear people making this topic into a moral issue when someone decides not to get every vaccine that the pediatrician recommends. It certainly changes one's perspective when a loved one suffers because mom and dad simply took the doctor's prescription.
     
  17. Edward

    Edward Puritanboard Commissioner

    Has it been established that there was a relationship, or is there just a proximity in time and an assumption that the two events might be related?
     
  18. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Here is some info on vaccines and fetal tissues:

    http://www.drwile.com/lnkpages/render.asp?vac_abortion


    http://www.immunize.org/concerns/vaticandocument.htm

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/aborted-fetuses-vaccines/story?id=29005539


    Here is what I advised someone last week who asked about vaccines and fetal cells:

    and

     
  19. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Senior

    Proximity and timing. We cannot say with absolute certainty that there is a correlation. The seizures started out very small, and we didn't realize what they were at first (she was six at the time). Of course the further time went on made making a case more difficult.
     
  20. Nate

    Nate Puritan Board Junior

    Tim, I am sorry to hear about your sister. I can imagine that is a hard providence to bear. Knowing this, I thank God for your life's witness: you don't come off as a bitter person at all - quite the opposite in fact. You are a great example to others who might have similar situations arise in their lives. Keep it up, brother.

    To offer my perspective to you and the OP, it is exactly because of your quotes above that we choose to vaccinate our children with the advised vaccination schedule. We have diligently sought the advice of our family physicians, asking for the reasons behind their advice. We have performed our own research into the studies behind both sides of the issue. For us, the clear choice was to get each of the recommended vaccinations for our infants and young children on the recommended schedule. None of our family physicians have ever tried to hide the fact that vaccination injuries do occur. But the simple facts have shown that the risks of non-vaccination are greater than the injury risks due to vaccinations.

    So, my take is that is seems a bit unfair to make remarks along the lines of "simply took the doctor's prescription". Doctor's prescriptions in this area seem to be rooted in hard evidence on the side of vaccinations. In His providence, God has provided a means by which we can reduce the probability that our children will contract devastating diseases. Our family chooses to make use of these means as recommended.

    Here are a couple of sources to consider regarding the vaccination schedule:
    https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-infection-schedule-vrs-the-vaccination-schedule/
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/multiple-vaccines-immunity.html
     
  21. Miss Marple

    Miss Marple Puritan Board Junior

    I'd ask someone with these important qualifications: A Christian. Doctor. With Children. (someone you know, not a celeb with a theory or book to sell) He/She should have the biblical mindset, the medical knowledge, and the experience to address the issue best.

    Too many opinions I've read come from non-Christians, medically ignorant or biased, people with something to sell, or folks without children who can be pretty flippant.

    I think a Christian doctor with kids is best. Did he vaccinate his kids? Should be the best advice in my opinion.
     
  22. Nate

    Nate Puritan Board Junior

    The Standard Bearer is a Reformed magazine associated with the PRCA. The October 1, 2015 issue includes an article by Dr. Brian Decker entitled "A Christian Doctor's Perspective on Vaccines." Dr. Decker is a family practitioner in a suburb of Grand Rapids, MI, and is a father of at least four children. The article provides the grounds upon which he urges his patients to vaccinate their children. I have a hard copy but unfortunately I can't find a link to the article.
     
  23. zsmcd

    zsmcd Puritan Board Freshman

    I could not find that specific issue. Would you happen to have a link?
     
  24. Andrew P.C.

    Andrew P.C. Puritan Board Junior

    Perg,

    This is like justifying the Dr. Mengele's torture of twins in the name of science. Two wrongs do not make many rights. Pontius Pilate tried to wipe his hands clean, but we know he is being judged for the murder of Jesus. Just because these are saving many lives does not mean we should partake because it MIGHT help prevent disease.

    I am not anti-vaccination. I would use vaccinations. However, I am anti-murder of children no matter what the so-called "benefits" might be. Sacrificing children to Molech for the community is evil no matter how you look at it. Likewise, the ACT that leads to "benefits" is just as important as INTENT.

    By the way, the bread analogy is ridiculous since scripture clearly teaches restitution. The bread stolen CAN be returned through the criminals repayment of his crime.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  25. moral necessity

    moral necessity Puritan Board Junior

    Remember that, if they ever attend public schools or public universities, there are certain vaccination requirements.

    For Virginia, they can be found here:

    http://www.vdh.state.va.us/epidemiology/immunization/requirements.htm
    http://www.virginia.edu/studenthealth/NSImmunizations.html
    http://www.virginia.edu/studenthealth/NSVaccineInfo.html#Required

    Blessings!
     
  26. Nate

    Nate Puritan Board Junior

    Sorry, I don't. It looks like they don't make recent articles available on their website. There's a good chance they will send you that issue of the magazine if you contact them and ask for it though.
     
  27. AThornquist

    AThornquist Puritan Board Doctor

    I hate how certain vaccines are historically associated with aborted children; however, I cannot undo what was done to those little ones, nor are ongoing abortions necessary to maintain the supply of vaccines. Therefore, I have no qualms of conscience when using vaccines historically associated with abortions; if anything, since this is the sad set of circumstances we find ourselves, I want to honor those aborted children by helping prevent the unnecessary death of as many other children as possible.
     
  28. Edward

    Edward Puritanboard Commissioner

  29. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Nah, it does no such thing. I have the same position as the Catholic Bioethicists, who are usually well-thought on these issues. Andrew Thornquist states it better than I do above.
     
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