Incest: From Adam to Moses and Romans 1

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BarryR

Puritan Board Freshman
Good afternoon Gentlemen and Ladies,

I have a question that I would love some assistance on.

The works of the Law are written on the hearts of all men. This would imply that that homosexual acts were always sinful - before Moses and after Moses. Moses just codified it. It was judged in Sodom to prove the lawlessness of it (among other things). This is how we can say the gentile that doesn't have the law still does what the law requires - or not. All men have the moral law on their hearts - polluted by sin of course.

What do we do about incest? Do people "know" that it is wrong? If so why did Adam's children marry each other? For instance - if a man practiced homosexuality without knowledge of the written Law - he still does it against the work of the law on his heart. If someone practice's incest today without the written law he does it because it is doing what is "right" because there is nothing about incest in the moral law written on our heats - if so, Cain and Abel would have felt conflict to not marry their sisters just like they would have felt conflict to practice homosexuality - even though nothing was stated prohibiting either. God would have also given them no other option then to choose sin - which He never does. This of course assumes we are created today just as Cain was created.

In short - people that marry their siblings today without the codified law can not be said to be doing such because their hearts are darkened. They are only acting with how they were created. They can be said to acting opposed to the Law given by Moses. I do think there could be arguments made for breaking other moral commandments (because of the genetic issues that occur and therefore not having love for our neighbor - being unborn children)

Clearly God allowed and even authorized incest as a good thing and intended it to be from the beginning. Cain and Able were created without having any aversion to this practice (unlike, say, homosexuality). Are will still created without this aversion today even though He has changed what is allowed for a lawful marriage?

Thoughts?
 
The practice of "incest" at the beginning was in a different context, before the individuation of different families, and before genes mutated leading to an increase in birth defects for children with close relatives for parents.

Incest is a normative issue (governed by moral law), but also a situational issue (affected by the situation), but the situation at the beginning was unique, and will never be replicated.

See this and other threads:
http://www.puritanboard.com/f40/did-god-force-incest-71693/

It's obviously one of those questions that occurs to the serious-minded believer, since it is dealt with a number of times on the PB. I don't know if there is a complete answer to it.

And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, (Acts 17:26, ESV)
 
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One thing that has always occurred to me is that, back in those days, it was not like you were marrying the brother you grew up with. People were living for hundreds and hundreds of years. You could marry your brother, but he could be literally 200 or 500 years older than you - imagine, half a century! like longer ago than the USA was founded! - and you were obviously far more distant than you'd be from any man you'd meet today.

"Brother" and "sister" didn't mean the same thing, relation-wise, at all back then; or so it would seem to me. I'm closer socially to a boy who lived across the street from me for a year than from a genetic brother born 300 years ago.

Genetically it meant the same thing, except for the lack of mutations as cited in the post before mine.
 
I have been doing further reading regarding this and haven't found too much help (Richard I did see that thread already - for some reason if I search for "incest" in the PB search box I get zero results :confused: )

So when did incestious relations become wrong? Some say when the law was given, but Leviticus was also stating why other lands and people around them were being judged - implying that it was sinful before the law was given.

Here is what is stated right after the laws about incest:

Leviticus 18:26–30
26*But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you 27*(for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), 28*lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29*For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. 30*So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the LORD your God.”


Most people today would know incest is wrong and it's very easy to appeal to this when doing apologetics because I am appealing to what they "know" morally to be wrong - via Romans 2:15. We also appeal to Cain "knowing" that murdering Abel was wrong and use Romans 2:15 (among other things) to explain why. In 1 Cor. 5:1-2 Paul seems to imply that they do know, in some sense, incest is wrong, but perhaps he was just expecting them to read their OT and follow those laws like he expected them to only sing Psalms (easy cowboy :hug: ), but not "know" that it was wrong apart from reading the Old Testament. Of course upon further reading of these verses I could see how the case could be made that Paul is referring to the sin of adultery. We all say that in some sense the moral requirements of the 10 commandments are known to all men at all times. So when did God start holding men accountable for such acts? Or was it always wrong and there is something that I am missing? Something tells me that James 2:25 might have something to say about this. :detective: Rahab lied to save the life of the spies - and the lie was not "sin" as it was allowed for the saving of life - God commends her act several times throughout Scripture. Maybe Cain and his wife can be seen in this context - obeying God to bring life? (normative always - but situational only as authorized by God, like Richard stated) It will never be duplicated, but clearly Rahab situation would be duplicated therefore we can follow that as an example for today even though we "know" that lying is wrong, but not in the situation to save the life of another (unless asked to deny Christ - which Scripture forbids). Anyone know any good situational ethics courses out there? :)

Feel free to untangle my thoughts :scratch:
 
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God commends her act several times throughout Scripture.
Nowhere in Scripture is Rahab ever commended for her lying.

Hey Joshua! Maybe I am misreading this, but James seems to saying this in the context of righteousness in James chapter 2

...and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24*You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25*And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26*For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Am I missing something here?

Pleasure to talk with you fellow DFW'er.
 
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Hey Josh,

I see you have already dealt with this issue before Did Rahab sin by deceiving the King? (It seems I have "pulled you back in" ! :) If others want to read this feel free - I would disagree with the course of action you would choose if you were hiding Jews and the Nazi's came looking for them - I have heard that stance before and have been unconvinced that I would be upholding my duty to the 6th Commandment - and to be clear, I am not saying this is something that gives license to sin for the the greater good nor do I think I can do anything at all for the preservation of life - I think God's Word sets the standards as to what is allowed and is not allowed (in this case lying to protect life is not sinful, it's not sinful to kill in self defense of my family, or it's not sinful for the civil magistrate to take the life of a man for rape.). I can appreciate your point though! I almost always fall on your side of the argument too Josh. :) I'll continue reading on the subject just to make sure I haven't missed anything! Thanks for taking the time man! :handshake:

adding a follow up -

Josh, I am curious as to your take on the incest thing. Is it 1. Always sinful 2. Not sinful for Cain and his siblings to practice incest but became sinful sometime before Moses gave the law - so sinful that God was going to judge the people/nations that practiced it. 3. Always sinful unless God gave a situation that it wouldn't be sinful in and didn't need to explain it further because that situation will never come about again? Feel free to add a 4th that I might be missing!
 
I'd like to extend an invite to my church as well. It seems to be close to your current location.
 
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