"In Praise of the CREC" by Uriesou Brito

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UserGone221

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I find this insightful.

In particular, the quote, "this fellow has irritated the right people for too many years to count,"

Post:

"In Praise of the CREC

Around 23 years ago, three independent churches decided to join forces. The autonomous status did not suit these good fellas, so they formed a little band of happy trouble-makers. Twenty-three years later, we gathered in Monroe, LA, for a Council that included over 100 churches and a famine around the globe for the kind of thing we offer abundantly: courage and creed.

I have just returned from four days of meetings and a few other meetings intertwined with happy meetings and superb fellowship and fine dining. The whole thing was an experience in renewed mercies. First, we deliberated over presbytery matters, and then we debated and deliberated on a host of documents and sundry issues as Council delegates. There was hearty back and forth and then a combo of laughter and decision-making.

We are a young denomination, and as my friend, Jerry Owen, says, young denominations need to be quick to repent and quick to be humble lest we fall. That’s a good word. But in our momentum, we don't want to let our supremely cheerful state go to waste. We are not over here cheering out of hubris for the incredible growth God has provided our tribe during Covidsterya, but because the signs of unity keep showing up from hobbit holes and theopolitan taverns. And if two or three brothers walking in unity is a good thing, a couple of hundred pastors and elders walking together is a whole different level of goodness.

It is hard to express my appreciation for a communion that has given me more than I expected but ultimately has taught me that my expectations for God’s goodness should be greater than I imagined. The CREC has been a home to me for almost 13 full years, and I genuinely pray these guys find my Latin presence fruitful for 33 more.

So, let me conclude this brief praise-worthy effort by sharing three thanksgiving elements of the CREC:

First, let’s put the cards on the table: Doug Wilson is the man! You may not like his beard or from whence his cigars cometh, but this fella has successfully irritated the right people for too many years to count. His joyful disposition and his plodding mammothness come with too many blessings to count. May his tribe increase and may his labors make Peter Enns lose his sleep at night.

Second, I had the joy of addressing the Council, but the more incredible thrill was sitting and listening to faithful pastors exhort and encourage us; many are quietly laboring in unknown towns doing the good work and providing the faithful word shepherding the sheep. They do this in Montana and Maine, and Missouri and their labors are not in vain. My gratitude for these faithful laborers increased a hundred-fold after our time together.

Finally, it is hard to define the joy CREC pastors have when they are together. It’s the sort of elation I never had in any other tradition and have never seen replicated. We don’t just get together to talk business; we get together to sing, share, and cherish one another. The like-mindedness of our communion adds a special touch to our fellowship. There is a rhythm to the things we do that keeps us all marching to the same beat year after year.

But beyond the drinks and devil-crushing strategies, there is also a firm reliance on the Triune God to bless our efforts. This commitment and trust mean that when we gather, we are sons of God going forth to war with the Son of God. And that means that our efforts these last 23 years have been one toast after the other.

May the Lord guide and bless our strategies, and may he see fit to strengthen our young tribe!
#creccouncil "
 
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Oh boy. They talk in lockstep.
Same cadence, same over-the-top lingo and phrasing.
It's almost, well, feminine in its floweriness.
 
Oh boy. They talk in lockstep.
Same cadence, same over-the-top lingo and phrasing.
It's almost, well, feminine in its floweriness.
Interesting---we've watched via livestream, a pastor confront the same cultural issues but by preaching "Christ crucified"---No insults nor taunts.
 
I don't have a problem it being posted, though it almost makes me want to bring the barfy smiley back. To echo in the vernacular, if you know you know.
Why would you want this removed?

Or do you want it moved to another thread? I apologize if it's in the wrong section. I assumed it belonged in FV.

I found it helpful as it is plain to discern.
Seriously? Wow. Someone put this thread in the trash please…

Why is it even in the FV/NPP category?


@NaphtaliPress
 
If this is not posted for ironic effect, then I am truly shocked.

"Doug Wilson is the man" only in the sense of Nathan's rebuke of David.
 
First, let’s put the cards on the table: Doug Wilson is the man! You may not like his beard or from whence his cigars cometh, but this fella has successfully irritated the right people for too many years to count. His joyful disposition and his plodding mammothness come with too many blessings to count. May his tribe increase and may his labors make Peter Enns lose his sleep at night.
I have not looked into Doug Wilson too deeply, mainly because I had no reason personally to do so. Nothing at stake. And I loath what to me was just gossip. I've heard tell of some of the "terrible" things about DW. Mostly I listen to innuendos and a general visceral dislike of him. And then there's the FV thing which I also hear he has abanded. So please understand that I personally know nothing against him, so I hold nothing against him. Except that everywhere, he is spoken against. (Acts 28:22)

But this I do know. When I listen to him cheerfully confront the culture and the Church, I like what he says. My wife doesn't, but I do. I think he's fun to watch. I watched the movie he made with atheist Christopher Hitchens, Collision, and liked it very much. Here's a link to the trailer. Christopher Hitchens has a special place in my heart. I truly loved him and often cried over his failed life. Unlike wise guy Dawkins (who I strongly dislike), Hitchens seemed to me like a hurting child who was abused and generally let down by his family. I could cry even now. I sum up his lectures on atheism in one sentence. "There is no God, and I hate Him."

That's all I have to say on the matter.
 
I have not looked into Doug Wilson too deeply, mainly because I had no reason personally to do so. Nothing at stake. And I loath what to me was just gossip. I've heard tell of some of the "terrible" things about DW. Mostly I listen to innuendos and a general visceral dislike of him. And then there's the FV thing which I also hear he has abanded. So please understand that I personally know nothing against him, so I hold nothing against him. Except that everywhere, he is spoken against. (Acts 28:22)

But this I do know. When I listen to him cheerfully confront the culture and the Church, I like what he says. My wife doesn't, but I do. I think he's fun to watch. I watched the movie he made with atheist Christopher Hitchens, Collision, and liked it very much. Here's a link to the trailer. Christopher Hitchens has a special place in my heart. I truly loved him and often cried over his failed life. Unlike wise guy Dawkins (who I strongly dislike), Hitchens seemed to me like a hurting child who was abused and generally let down by his family. I could cry even now. I sum up his lectures on atheism in one sentence. "There is no God, and I hate Him."

That's all I have to say on the matter.
In what world has Wilson abandoned Federal Vision? Has he publicly repented?
 
I have not looked into Doug Wilson too deeply, mainly because I had no reason personally to do so. Nothing at stake. And I loath what to me was just gossip. I've heard tell of some of the "terrible" things about DW. Mostly I listen to innuendos and a general visceral dislike of him. And then there's the FV thing which I also hear he has abanded. So please understand that I personally know nothing against him, so I hold nothing against him. Except that everywhere, he is spoken against. (Acts 28:22)

But this I do know. When I listen to him cheerfully confront the culture and the Church, I like what he says. My wife doesn't, but I do. I think he's fun to watch. I watched the movie he made with atheist Christopher Hitchens, Collision, and liked it very much. Here's a link to the trailer. Christopher Hitchens has a special place in my heart. I truly loved him and often cried over his failed life. Unlike wise guy Dawkins (who I strongly dislike), Hitchens seemed to me like a hurting child who was abused and generally let down by his family. I could cry even now. I sum up his lectures on atheism in one sentence. "There is no God, and I hate Him."

That's all I have to say on the matter.

I see. This post is precisely the problem with Wilson boosters. Not investigating his problems with the gospel and his first table problems in favor of his "giving it to the man". This is precisely how the church loses the gospel.

He still sells "Reformed is not enough" and has not repented of Federal Vision. And to use Acts 28:22 for him is about as appropriate as using it to defend Mormons.
 
I have not looked into Doug Wilson too deeply, mainly because I had no reason personally to do so. Nothing at stake. And I loath what to me was just gossip. I've heard tell of some of the "terrible" things about DW. Mostly I listen to innuendos and a general visceral dislike of him. And then there's the FV thing which I also hear he has abanded. So please understand that I personally know nothing against him, so I hold nothing against him. Except that everywhere, he is spoken against. (Acts 28:22)

But this I do know. When I listen to him cheerfully confront the culture and the Church, I like what he says. My wife doesn't, but I do. I think he's fun to watch. I watched the movie he made with atheist Christopher Hitchens, Collision, and liked it very much. Here's a link to the trailer. Christopher Hitchens has a special place in my heart. I truly loved him and often cried over his failed life. Unlike wise guy Dawkins (who I strongly dislike), Hitchens seemed to me like a hurting child who was abused and generally let down by his family. I could cry even now. I sum up his lectures on atheism in one sentence. "There is no God, and I hate Him."

That's all I have to say on the matter.

You ought to read some of the court reports. And also read what a pastor says about women.
 
In what world has Wilson abandoned Federal Vision? Has he publicly repented?

All I said is that I "heard" that he kicked the FV thing. I was as careful as I knew how to explain that I had never had a reason to look into DW's problems. I only said I liked him to the extent of my experience of listening to him. And that I took a liking to him based on what I had seen and heard him say. Did I do or say something wrong? Am I expected not to like what I hear from the horse's mouth, as it were, just because everyone else dislikes him? It's kind of a ninth commandment thing "hangup" of mine. (John 7:51) I was only relating my opinion based on the minimal knowledge I had. I do not promote him. I used to love Bill Cosby too. Didn't you.
 
@greenbaggins wrote a blog post a long time ago on this subject (did DW kick FV?). Lane originally was convinced he had, if I remember correctly, but since discerned correctly that he had not.

All I said is that I "heard" that he kicked the FV thing. I was as careful as I knew how to explain that I had never had a reason to look into DW's problems. I only said I liked him to the extent of my experience of listening to him. And that I took a liking to him based on what I had seen and heard him say. Did I do or say something wrong? Am I expected not to like what I hear from the horse's mouth, as it were, just because everyone else dislikes him? It's kind of a ninth commandment thing "hangup" of mine. (John 7:51) I was only relating my opinion based on the minimal knowledge I had. I do not promote him. I used to love Bill Cosby too. Didn't you.
 
All I said is that I "heard" that he kicked the FV thing. I was as careful as I knew how to explain that I had never had a reason to look into DW's problems. I only said I liked him to the extent of my experience of listening to him. And that I took a liking to him based on what I had seen and heard him say. Did I do or say something wrong? Am I expected not to like what I hear from the horse's mouth, as it were, just because everyone else dislikes him? It's kind of a ninth commandment thing "hangup" of mine. (John 7:51) I was only relating my opinion based on the minimal knowledge I had. I do not promote him. I used to love Bill Cosby too. Didn't you.

@BayouHuguenot just helped you out. I would love to hear you defend how his words square with the qualifications for an elder in the law. Or even just a Christian man. If I posted what he posted, my session, and my Presbytery would discipline me.

As for the ninth commandment, calling evil good is also a breach. So is excusing sin.

I will just leave this here:
Romans 16:17–18: 17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

And:
Acts 20:29–31: 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
 
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@greenbaggins wrote a blog post a long time ago on this subject (did DW kick FV?). Lane originally was convinced he had, if I remember correctly, but since discerned correctly that he had not.
Not quite. Before the "Federal Vision No Mas" post, I had originally been of the mind that DW was orthodox on justification. I recanted that before his post, as well. After he wrote the post, I noted that he had not said anything about his actual theology changing. I had expressed hope that he would leave, but not any sort of confidence that he had actually left.
 
Specific to Uri Brito, I have enjoyed the Kuyperian Commentary podcast from time to time.
 
When "owning the libs" becomes more important in theology and politics than a positive statement of the truth we should not be surprised that the truth gets compromised and conduct is bad. And Christians shouldn't be ok with that.
 
All I said is that I "heard" that he kicked the FV thing. I was as careful as I knew how to explain that I had never had a reason to look into DW's problems. I only said I liked him to the extent of my experience of listening to him. And that I took a liking to him based on what I had seen and heard him say. Did I do or say something wrong? Am I expected not to like what I hear from the horse's mouth, as it were, just because everyone else dislikes him? It's kind of a ninth commandment thing "hangup" of mine. (John 7:51) I was only relating my opinion based on the minimal knowledge I had. I do not promote him. I used to love Bill Cosby too. Didn't you.

He specifically said he still affirms the Joint FV statement. He just dropped the label so he could better market himself to that Baptist money.
 
When "owning the libs" becomes more important in theology and politics than a positive statement of the truth we should not be surprised that the truth gets compromised and conduct is bad. And Christians shouldn't be ok with that.
Wilson is a Trump like figure. People like him because he "owns the libs" while ignoring numerous concerning statements and outright heretical theology. Our faith must be more than sticking it to those we disagree with politically.
 
I find this insightful.

In particular, the quote, "this fellow has irritated the right people for too many years to count,"

Post:

"In Praise of the CREC

Around 23 years ago, three independent churches decided to join forces. The autonomous status did not suit these good fellas, so they formed a little band of happy trouble-makers. Twenty-three years later, we gathered in Monroe, LA, for a Council that included over 100 churches and a famine around the globe for the kind of thing we offer abundantly: courage and creed.

I have just returned from four days of meetings and a few other meetings intertwined with happy meetings and superb fellowship and fine dining. The whole thing was an experience in renewed mercies. First, we deliberated over presbytery matters, and then we debated and deliberated on a host of documents and sundry issues as Council delegates. There was hearty back and forth and then a combo of laughter and decision-making.

We are a young denomination, and as my friend, Jerry Owen, says, young denominations need to be quick to repent and quick to be humble lest we fall. That’s a good word. But in our momentum, we don't want to let our supremely cheerful state go to waste. We are not over here cheering out of hubris for the incredible growth God has provided our tribe during Covidsterya, but because the signs of unity keep showing up from hobbit holes and theopolitan taverns. And if two or three brothers walking in unity is a good thing, a couple of hundred pastors and elders walking together is a whole different level of goodness.

It is hard to express my appreciation for a communion that has given me more than I expected but ultimately has taught me that my expectations for God’s goodness should be greater than I imagined. The CREC has been a home to me for almost 13 full years, and I genuinely pray these guys find my Latin presence fruitful for 33 more.

So, let me conclude this brief praise-worthy effort by sharing three thanksgiving elements of the CREC:

First, let’s put the cards on the table: Doug Wilson is the man! You may not like his beard or from whence his cigars cometh, but this fella has successfully irritated the right people for too many years to count. His joyful disposition and his plodding mammothness come with too many blessings to count. May his tribe increase and may his labors make Peter Enns lose his sleep at night.

Second, I had the joy of addressing the Council, but the more incredible thrill was sitting and listening to faithful pastors exhort and encourage us; many are quietly laboring in unknown towns doing the good work and providing the faithful word shepherding the sheep. They do this in Montana and Maine, and Missouri and their labors are not in vain. My gratitude for these faithful laborers increased a hundred-fold after our time together.

Finally, it is hard to define the joy CREC pastors have when they are together. It’s the sort of elation I never had in any other tradition and have never seen replicated. We don’t just get together to talk business; we get together to sing, share, and cherish one another. The like-mindedness of our communion adds a special touch to our fellowship. There is a rhythm to the things we do that keeps us all marching to the same beat year after year.

But beyond the drinks and devil-crushing strategies, there is also a firm reliance on the Triune God to bless our efforts. This commitment and trust mean that when we gather, we are sons of God going forth to war with the Son of God. And that means that our efforts these last 23 years have been one toast after the other.

May the Lord guide and bless our strategies, and may he see fit to strengthen our young tribe!
#creccouncil "
What in the world is this? Is this a parody? Reminds me of a teenage girl talking about her latest crush.
 
To be truthful, once you get past the fact that some of Doug Wilson's books are initially a "fun" read, you realise there is not all that much to them or to virtually anything else that he says. He has a clever way with words, I will give him that, but you soon grasp that it is largely a matter of style over substance. Even the much-praised books on the family are full of legalism presented as if it were the gospel itself - not to mention other aspects of highly dubious theology. One example is denying the covenant of works and advocating monocovenantalism - an extremely dangerous error - in The Federal Husband.

Also, I believe that the likes of Doug Wilson have gotten away with so much because of a consistent failure in Reformed churches to censure aberrant opinions because we liked the person who was advocating them. I upset people when I criticise John Murray for his denial of the covenant of works. I believe that his error corrupted the gospel and is partly responsible for the emergence of Norman Shepherd and the Federal Vision. The fact that I agree with him on the Sabbath, holy days, and exclusive psalmody is beside the point. These issues are important, but they are not as important as errors that serve to undermine the gospel itself. If you are not willing to censure Mr Wilson or Professor Murray for their aberrant doctrines just because you like them, then you have lost all pretence of impartiality and have become a judge with evil thoughts (James 2:1-4).
 
Perhaps (speculation; I like Murray on worship), the Lord allows even the best of his saints to err to keep us humble and watchful?
 
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