In churches that go off track.

I know the feeling.

A couple thoughts 1. we aren't to be feeling based, a lot of the whole feelings thing is our cultural upbringing for instance the classic example is not marrying because you are not "in love" well thats all emotional and feeling based and if you fall in love you are probably going to fall out of love, because feelings are unreliable. 2. i was at a garage sale yesterday and I have to ask people to sign receipts for my business which is awkward and this one lady wouldn't do it, and my conscience felt "guilty" (best word for the feeling) though I had done nothing wrong, I've also had this happen at jobs i've worked at where they caught someone stealing (not me) and I sudden felt a bit of shame or guilt and searched my conscience saying to myself "did I do anything like that here against my boss, am I to blame too" and then when I witness to people and they turn on God vehemently it makes me feel really bad and sometimes I get that "guilty" feeling. ok one more example since atheists hate christians who "indoctrinate" children with creationism etc, i've been reading in public with my nephew from a creationist book on dinosaurs and felt eyes on me and felt that "guilty" feeling though they are the guilty one of indoctrinating their children with lies. All of that to say that feelings are wrong a lot of times and as biblical men our responsibility is to do what is right inspite (many times) of our feelings. You were probably right in what you said unless it was not in love, and not patient and respectful but even a lot of those times where it wasn't (1. we can't be perfect) 2. God still used it anyways and that means that it wasn't exactly contrary to His will and predestination. I am not advocating shooting your mouth off at every instant (James 3), but to be prayerful and ready to give the answer from the hope that is in you, when many times people aren't going to want to hear it.

That was my exact thought when reading what you were writing. There are a couple I certainly regret but lots that I don't.

Yeah I call that the "demon behind every tree syndrome"

I'm sorry my friend.

It's how a lot of little things add up isn't it, that's what I'm dealing with right now. Music is lower on my priority list than let's say doctrine but there is doctrine and propriety to music in the scriptures and so we need to be careful there too.

Wow that is well said, that speaks to my heart, its that picking and choosing that is so destructive.

Exactly. I was there when I heard certain words come from the pulpit that effected me and just spoke to me "you can not attend this church anymore".

If it is any trouble don't worry about it I was just curious more than anything, I don't want you to rewrite it or anything like that but just if you happened to have it laying around.

And we have to remember no church is this way either or denomination, no Presbyterian has a handle on everything or a Baptist, not even doctrinally do they have perfect thought. We are all a mess, church is messy business, I don't think we should sling around that phrase as a cliche and let that give us license to lower the bar but we need to be honest at the same time. I know I could probably say a lot more but right now I'm kinda drawing a blank, maybe we can play off each other a bit more I know this is a topic very close to home for me right now and I've got a lot to spill my guts on, a lot of hurt, confusion, tension and frustration and sorry to say some bitterness bottled up that I really need to get out, but I'm just going to leave it there and look forward to your reply and anyone else's interaction is most certainly welcome.

 

Dear Brett;
I'm sorry that you're going through all this. Some trials are rougher than others. If I may say one thing about leaving this congregation, and I had friends, as most of us have, leave our congregation for various reasons, make a REASONABLE effort to mend fences. Whether they accept your attempt at reconciliation is not your problem. You just have to do your part and step out in faith in order to find a nurturing congregation which also doctorinally balanced.

I hope the following verses encourage you.
James 1:2-4
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds,(A) 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be matureand complete, not lacking anything.
Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

May you entrust yourself to the wisdom of our Great Shepherd

 

I got your PM very helpful, I was taking my time to write you back. Yeah PM's on PB don't show whether they are received and they don't show up in my sent box either, every person that has ever PM'd me has sent multiple PM's and you can tell they weren't sure they sent so they sent more than one lol, but yes I got it and I will rite you back, very encouraged thanks so much.

Here's a bit of anecdote if it helps. When I was first saved I tried to "be a light" to my party harty drinking druggie friends and it didn't turn out well I ended up back in sin with them, then after overdosing and God saved my life, or rather spared my life, I knew that I had to seperate. So months went by and my friends I had been around everyday for the last 6 years and had been in a band with for that time period and had known since elementary school too, they started to notice I wasn't coming around. I finally met with them and they knew something was up I explained to them how I belong to Christ and I will not live that life anymore and I can't hang around with them anymore and they looked sad but simultaneously they were like "yeah right Peter we'll see you in a couple weeks" (they thought I was just going through a phase) until I said "Well can you help me unload your drumset its in my car" then it got quiet and they knew I was serious.

So the reason I posted that is because sometimes separation is absolutely necessary and I am convinced to this day (about 7 yrs later) that I am more of a witness to them by not being there than by being there. There had to have been many parties, or many nights partying or playing in bands even that they looked around and said "hmmm... why isn't Pete here? oh yeah he's a christian now" (p.s. I am interacting with them still but not by hanging around their scenes, but rather on my terms, in situations that can't become potential stumbling block for me because of my past).

Its hard leaving friends but Christ is worthy, Jim Elliot was asked once he graduated from college why he didn't just stay and do missionary work in America because there was a huge need here and he said something to the affect of "America has its judge, it's condemnation is written on its bank books and the dust on its bible covers, if God wants to raise up a sleeping christian to minister to America He can, but how can I not go to the Auca who have never heard the name of Jesus" also the Moravian missionaries who went to an Island with 3000 slaves that the island owners promised would never hear the gospel, they sold themselves into lifelong slavery and when they were on the boat leaving the dock and as the gap widened and they were leaving their family and friends behind not for 10 yrs or 20 yrs but for life, as they had sold themselves into lifelong slavery, the one brother took the others hand into his and shouted "Let the Lamb who was slain receive the reward of His suffering" and they never saw their friends again.

Here's a song too that expresses my heart about leaving my friends in my particular situation, this is a rap song but read/listen to the lyrics they are really poignant A letter to my friends - Timothy Brindle (Rap-a-long) - YouTube you'll be glad you listened to it.