If you "came out" as a Calvinist to Arminian friends and relatives...

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J. Dean

Puritan Board Junior
What was/is their reaction?

I ask this because a woman at the Bible study I attend said her (Arminian) family has treated her as if she had joined a cult-and that's deplorable to hear.

While I realize that not all Arminians would react in such a way, I was wondering if any of you here-particularly later converts to Calvinism-ran into such strong reactions.

The church I happen to attend is Arminian (I'll have to explain that one on another threa), but to be honest I doubt if that many of the people in the church would even know or care about the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism (which is very sad). On the one hand, they don't care, so long as one is a Christian. On the other hand, it makes for some very poor discernment among members, as the church I attend has a bad track record of jumping on the latest fads and trends in Christendom (Beth Moore seems to have gotten a foothold. When I addressed another Sunday School teacher about it, she dismissed out of hand the concerns I had about Moore being unscriptural).

So when you came clean, did you get strong reactions? Heated arguments? Apathy? What happened?
 
I'm very big in height and girth and have a pleasant disposition so people generally don't get upset with me.

Usually I get a comment about how they just can't accept some point of TULIP as being logical.

It's all about them and their view.

Not sure if they really want to declare themselves as the epitome of logic for the human race, I sure wouldn't nominate them.
 
My family has put me off as "delusional". They want to keep force feeding me their garbage of "free-will" and I cannot stomach it to hear that God has to respect man's free-will.
 
The church I happen to attend is Arminian (I'll have to explain that one on another threa), but to be honest I doubt if that many of the people in the church would even know or care about the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism (which is very sad).


This is the EPC Church that you list in your signature? :scratch:
 
My wife and I have gotten the cold shoulder in some measure for our beliefs. We both grew up in a Southern Baptist church. Though they have never used the word "cult" it does seem that is how they see our beliefs. Wow, you should have seen the reaction when we told them we were baptizing our babies! It never got heated, but we had discussions and what we learned about their belief systems surprised us, as they seemed more semi-Pelagian than Arminian in nature. Here's a tip: Never tell your MIL her beliefs sound more Roman Catholic in nature than they appear to agree with the SBC. :wow:

My wife's youngest brother is in seminary at Southeastern Baptist Seminary. He is sympathetic and may even consider himself a 4-pointer, though lately he seems to be taking a liking to Molinism. Sigh.
 
The church I happen to attend is Arminian (I'll have to explain that one on another threa), but to be honest I doubt if that many of the people in the church would even know or care about the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism (which is very sad).


This is the EPC Church that you list in your signature? :scratch:
No-no. I attend a Bible study at an EPC church and am affiliated with them, but because of my wife and in-laws' duties to a Nazarene church (that seems to be becoming more and more non-denominational each day), I'm stuck there. My wife and in-laws are Arminian, and I started off being Arminian. Believe me, if an opportunity came for me to leave, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
 
We weren't treated quite as badly as if we had joined a cult, but we have definitely received our share of lectures from both sides of the family. Since it's been three years, they have backed off a bit and we mostly don't discuss theology. But then our families are both baptist fundamentalists, and we disagree on a lot more than just reformed theology.
 
Actually, I'd be pretty thrilled if anyone in my extended family proclaimed Christ at all. To them we are merely dangerous fundamentalists.
 
I feel for you brother. Some in my family were Nazarene. I imagine you look like you have a third eye to them. How is that entire sanctification thing working for them?
 
I have only been a Christian for less than 3 years and started moving in the reformed direction about 1.75 years ago. My wife's initial reaction was la la la la la with her hands in her ears the first couple of times I tried to explain it to her as best I could. After 4 or 5 times tying to explain what little I knew, I sort of just let it drop for a while. She came to me with a list of scripture verses and asked "is this what you were talking about ?" (predestination) I said yes tentavely and she said ok, thanks. A couple of days later she asked me about TULIP, again I explained it the best I could ( still a newbie myself) and she said ok.
After that we have both been moving steadily forward, I thank the Lord daily for opening our eyes together, it makes it a lot easier when you have each other to study and grow with.

The rest of my Family and friends reaction ran the full range from mildly annoyed (all you really need is Jesus, don't worry about Theology) to looking at us like we joined a cult and not only drank the kool aid, but are actively making It.

Sent from my iPhone
 
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My wife grew up pentacostal and the church her parent's still attend is arminian. She did get some resistance and arguments from her parents when we became members of a reformed church. The issue for them was more that our church doesn't have a worship band (we're small and "old fashioned" in comparison to what they're used to) and that we "baptize babies." It would make no difference to them if we were reformed, lutheran, or anglican. I suspect that not many people at their church even knows what the term "arminian" means.
 
I feel for you brother. Some in my family were Nazarene. I imagine you look like you have a third eye to them. How is that entire sanctification thing working for them?

Now you see, that's an interesting point you raise up. The Nazarene church I attend is looking more and more like a non-denominational church, so the whole idea of entire sanctification is either lost or redefined. Only the older members of the church have any understanding of the doctrine, and it's been softened a bit because many of them realize that perfection isn't such an easy thing to accomplish ;)

What's actually sad about the church is that there seems to be no sense of doctrine at all, other than "I love Jesus." Doctrine is really downplayed, so if I were to stand up and say "Hey! Calvin rules!" most of them (again, except for some of the old timers) would give me weird looks or just shrug their shoulders about it. The theology really doesn't go past the membership class; it's glossed over, then forgotten. Everything is about works, service, doing good deeds, and it's to the point where I'm actually sick of hearing about it-not because good works in and of themselves are bad, but because that seems to be all that the church is about.

And then, to top it off, the church is having "spiritual renewal" services coming up (read: revival). And I know what's going to happen: a speaker will come in and give an emotionally pumped service for the purpose of having people flood to the altars.

I really pray that God presents an opportunity for me to get my family out of that church and into a Reformed church, preferrably the one I attend for Bible study.
 
I am still on the fence as to the fact where my mother is between Pelagianism & Arminianism. On one hand she is absolutely pelagian in the matter of Free-will. She's Wesleyan concerning prevenient grace, and as he claims to believe in God's Sovereignty, she does not trust in it, because she thinks if she trusts good in all matters, it will be the same as testing Him.

As a child, I remember my mother saying things to the effect that America needs to return to their "christian" roots. I tried to explain to her that those roots she speaks about is the Faith I hold. And not just that, but if our founding father's that stepped off the Mayflower were to hear your statement of faith, they would regaurd you as a heretic. And a vile one to say the least.

I said this in love, for those that will be ready to bring swift rebuke.

In the last 2 years I have grown to stay away from people that defile God's Grace.
 
I ask this because a woman at the Bible study I attend said her (Arminian) family has treated her as if she had joined a cult-and that's deplorable to hear.

My family reacted this way. Some have cut ties over my Reformed convictions.
 
Actually, I'd be pretty thrilled if anyone in my extended family proclaimed Christ at all.

This is pretty much my case too, my father-in-law being the exception. He is a good Baptist (non-reformed) deacon but his personality is very non-confrontational. I assume he disagrees with my wife and my beliefs at times, but he's never brought it up. He loves Christ and he knows I do too so he's happy I do my best to lead his daughter in a Christian household. I'm actually looking forward to the day we baptize our baby because one reason is that I hope my FIL and MIL will come experience their first Presbyterian service.
 
My family treated me as though I'd joined a cult as well and totally object to any conversation at all on spiritual matters, in fear I will speak Calvinism! It was really painful at first until I worked through the 'counting the cost'! God knows and I pray daily for each of them to search for truth!
 
When the Spirit opened my eyes to what the Word said, I once asked my grandma if she had experienced much Calvinism when she was in school (she and my grandpa went to Philadelphia College of the Bible - now Philadelphia Biblical University - a hotbed for dispensationalism then; they attended/served at Tenth Pres, though, so I'm not sure about that) Anyways, her response was "No, not much. If anyone came into the school thinking like that, they likely had it beat out of them by the time they left." I knew then this wouldn't ever be a dinner time conversation with my family. My dad is Seventh Day Adventist and my mom, a faithful Baptist (somewhat fundamentalist, showing some semi-pelagian tendencies) and speaking in terms of covenants and sovereignty doesn't go over well.

I was blessed to see such faithfulness in each of their lives but they've all been swallowed up by Bible Belt dispensationalism and legalism
 
A very interesting thread! I visited at a Mennonite church a short time ago and an older gentlemen who sat beside me, turned at the end of the service and shook my hand and introduced himself. After asking where I was from he asked what church I attended. I explained to him that I was a Reformed Presbyterian and he immediately launched into an attack on Calvinism. He did it very meekly and mildly but it was an attack. He kept returning to the "whosoever will" passage, even after I explained it. When he wouldn't stop and his brother, who had invited me was looking very uncomforable kept trying to stop it I turned to Romans 9, "Nay, but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour?" He said, "Well, you don't have to be angry!" I said I wasn't angry, I was just quoting Paul from Romans. He wasn't even aware that verse or passage was there.

My family, Southern Baptist, has been extremely stand offish about my Calvinism and infant baptism, let alone the Regulative Principle of Worship. They avoid talking about anything dealing with Christianity when I am around and it has led to some uncomfortable confrontations. As was said in a prior post, count the cost! He is not willing to leave mother or father or brother or sister for Christ is unworthy! It can be difficult but Christ is worth it all!
 
My favorite story is when the wife of a very prominent Family Radio staffer said I was in a cult because Calvinism was a "name" and not just "Christian". She was Plymouth Brethren :)
 
Actually, I'd be pretty thrilled if anyone in my extended family proclaimed Christ at all.

This is pretty much my case too, my father-in-law being the exception. He is a good Baptist (non-reformed) deacon but his personality is very non-confrontational. I assume he disagrees with my wife and my beliefs at times, but he's never brought it up. He loves Christ and he knows I do too so he's happy I do my best to lead his daughter in a Christian household. I'm actually looking forward to the day we baptize our baby because one reason is that I hope my FIL and MIL will come experience their first Presbyterian service.


As that day approaches, their might be a good time that will present itself to sit them down and explain it to them. :think:
 
Actually, I'd be pretty thrilled if anyone in my extended family proclaimed Christ at all.

This is pretty much my case too, my father-in-law being the exception. He is a good Baptist (non-reformed) deacon but his personality is very non-confrontational. I assume he disagrees with my wife and my beliefs at times, but he's never brought it up. He loves Christ and he knows I do too so he's happy I do my best to lead his daughter in a Christian household. I'm actually looking forward to the day we baptize our baby because one reason is that I hope my FIL and MIL will come experience their first Presbyterian service.


As that day approaches, their might be a good time that will present itself to sit them down and explain it to them. :think:

Bill, I hope the opportunity does present itself! In the past I have shared online articles w/my FIL regarding infant baptism but he has never mentioned anything about them. I guess at least he isn't opposed! He did once send me a FB message and asked me to tell him about Tim Keller. Not sure where he came across Keller or if he even knows he's a Presbyterian. He might have just asked me because he knows I read a lot.
 
I pray that the opportunity presents itself also! That would be an excellent way to have them experience a Presbyterian service and also to hear the gospel! As a side note, my father, again a Southern Baptist minister actually began my journey to infant baptism by loaning me Berkhof's Systematic Theology. We were discussing books we had read and he pulled out Berkhof and said I should read it because he was reformed too. He actually studied it in seminary! My wife read the section on infant baptism and book marked it. When I returned home from work she present me with the book and said I should read that section. Praise the Lord, he opened my eyes to His wonderful provision for children! My Dad later was arguing with me about infant baptism and I told him, "Well, it is your fault I am an infant baptist, you gave me Berkhof!" He clammed up then. I keep praying for him.
 
I keep praying for him

Your last sentence here seems to imply that holding a credobaptist position is somehow tantamount to heresy. I would simply point out that there are many of us on this board that respectfully disagree with the Prebyterian/Reformed view of baptism. One of the things that make this board work is that we all agree on certain issues, while we agree to respectfully disagree on others. I am certainly not praying for the paedobaptists on this board to "convert".
 
Your last sentence here seems to imply that holding a credobaptist position is somehow tantamount to heresy. I would simply point out that there are many of us on this board that respectfully disagree with the Prebyterian/Reformed view of baptism. One of the things that make this board work is that we all agree on certain issues, while we agree to respectfully disagree on others. I am certainly not praying for the paedobaptists on this board to "convert".


Just curious - If we believe that what we know and understand of the scriptures is the truth, should we not pray that others would also see it as the truth, as well?

For example, in my church we have several Psalms only families. I know they are praying that the others in the congregation would agree with them. That doesn't necessarily mean they are calling the rest of us heretics. Among the myriads of things I can pray for, can I not pray for someone to agree with what I hold as true without someone thinking I am labeling them as a heretic? I would think it would be a very positive thing, as a truth seeker. And I don't believe FCC was trying to label anyone as such in his post. :2cents:
 
I most certainly was not labelling him a heretic for being credo baptist. I am sometimes amazed at the leaps made on this board by innocent posts and statements. I am praying for his conversion to Calvinism, or as others would label it, Biblical soteriology. I am also praying for his growth in grace in numerous areas in his life (which includes baptism! ;). I pray for all my brothers and sisters in the Lord, that He would continue to cause them to grow and prosper under His care and grooming.
 
Your last sentence here seems to imply that holding a credobaptist position is somehow tantamount to heresy. I would simply point out that there are many of us on this board that respectfully disagree with the Prebyterian/Reformed view of baptism. One of the things that make this board work is that we all agree on certain issues, while we agree to respectfully disagree on others. I am certainly not praying for the paedobaptists on this board to "convert".


Just curious - If we believe that what we know and understand of the scriptures is the truth, should we not pray that others would also see it as the truth, as well?

For example, in my church we have several Psalms only families. I know they are praying that the others in the congregation would agree with them. That doesn't necessarily mean they are calling the rest of us heretics. Among the myriads of things I can pray for, can I not pray for someone to agree with what I hold as true without someone thinking I am labeling them as a heretic? I would think it would be a very positive thing, as a truth seeker. And I don't believe FCC was trying to label anyone as such in his post. :2cents:

:ditto:
 
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