N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
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If We Should Not Use Instruments: Then Why Does 95% of the Church Use Them?
- Thread starter N. Eshelman
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Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Panta? 
Roldan
Puritan Board Junior
Why? because we should use them and their argument is found wanting
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
Why? because we should use them and their argument is found wanting
That is profound
panta dokimazete
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Roldan
Puritan Board Junior
Why? because we should use them and their argument is found wanting
That is profound
I know I said "man I got to get real deep on this one" lol
timmopussycat
Puritan Board Junior
Because 95% of the church either does not know the case for unaccompanied psalms only or has not been presented with a case that is provably biblical.
Historical questions.
When did organs first appear in Presbyterian Churches in the North America?
When did organs first appear in old school / old light Presbyterian Churches in North America?
When did organs first appear in Dutch Reformed Churches in the North America?
When did organs first appear in German Reformed Churches in North America?
When did organs first appear in Congregationional hurches in New England?
When did organs first appear in Baptist [other then free will and missionary] Churches in the US?
When did organs first appear in Episcopal Churches in the US?
I suspect that the acceptance of organs is a post second great awakening phenomena. I wonder what the historical facts are.
When did organs first appear in Presbyterian Churches in the North America?
When did organs first appear in old school / old light Presbyterian Churches in North America?
When did organs first appear in Dutch Reformed Churches in the North America?
When did organs first appear in German Reformed Churches in North America?
When did organs first appear in Congregationional hurches in New England?
When did organs first appear in Baptist [other then free will and missionary] Churches in the US?
When did organs first appear in Episcopal Churches in the US?
I suspect that the acceptance of organs is a post second great awakening phenomena. I wonder what the historical facts are.
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
I know that Cotton Mather saw the organ coming into New England as a way for the Anglicans (no offense to you sir) to steal away the Puritan youth, much like the rock band in the church has stolen away many of today's youth from 'traditional' worshipping churches!
Here is the quote:
"Attempts to propagate the Church of England among us, by a most conspicuous and marvelous blast of heaven upon them, do very much come to nothing. Even the organs introduced into the chapel in this metropolis of the English America, signify very little to draw over our people unto them." -Cotton Mather, in a letter to John Stirling, 1714.
Roldan
Puritan Board Junior
It is fascinating to hear that organs were in Anglican Churches in the Americas that early.
An early historian of the Episcopal Church in Maryland viewed organs and the singing of hymns as a Methodist or Lutheran infection.
Augusta
Puritan Board Doctor
How often in Israel's history did they have worship right? How often were we told that a King did what was right in the sight of the Lord, but the high places were not removed? How often were they removed? Not very many.
It seems we are not doing much better than OT Israel.
It seems we are not doing much better than OT Israel.
or 
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
I bet it is a lot LESS if we included the Eastern churches as well as many of the African churches.
In the US and Europe it is probably 98-99%
panta dokimazete
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
African churches use drums...a lot
Roldan
Puritan Board Junior
African churches use drums...a lot
As does Latino churches
TimV
Puritanboard Botanist
Bottom line is Davidius came through again with his unusual insightfulness. The 95% figure is way too low; I should have thought of that myself. I don't believe I've ever seen or heard of any African church that didn't use instruments, after 9 years there, and there sure aren't many US churches that don't.
davidsuggs
Puritan Board Freshman
David Hume's naturalistic fallacy. Because something is the case, absolutely does not mean it ough to be the case. This is like me asking: "If we aren't supposed to murder babies, why do so many people have abortions?" The "is" and the "ought" are completely severed metaphysically. They have no hold on each other except that the "is" sometimes pursues the "ought."
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
tellville
Puritan Board Junior
Yeah, I would say about 99%
Edit:
Yes, if you include the Eastern churches than the ratio probably changes. But still more than 90%
Ivan
Pastor
Good question, don't know. I'd suspect that the piano came before the organ, but that's not your question.
BTW, I highly don't that my church will ever have an organ. We do use a piano though.
davidsuggs
Puritan Board Freshman
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsuggs
David Hume's naturalistic fallacy. Because something is the case, absolutely does not mean it ough to be the case. This is like me asking: "If we aren't supposed to murder babies, why do so many people have abortions?" The "is" and the "ought" are completely severed metaphysically. They have no hold on each other except that the "is" sometimes pursues the "ought."
Sounds like you are arguing for the PCA to get back to roots of acapella worship?
I'm not arguing either way, I just get bugged by fallacious reasoning
Ivan
Pastor
JohnGill
Puritan Board Senior
Thread title: If We Should Not Use Instruments: Then Why Does 95% of the Church Use Them?
If this is the justification for having musical instruments, then can we also conclude that Athanasius was wrong? Or to put another way, since when does consensus determine practice within Christian churches?
So, no, it is a bad question. Fallacious questions always are.
CharlieJ
Puritan Board Junior
Actually, there was no fallacious reasoning in the OP.
To be fallacious, there must be an improper movement from premise to conclusion. There was no conclusion in the OP, only a question.
It's interesting to see how several people have jumped to their own conclusion, assuming that the OP is using an appeal to majority to assert that instruments are good.
In fact, if you clicked the link and read it, you would know the author is actually pointing people in the opposite direction.
To be fallacious, there must be an improper movement from premise to conclusion. There was no conclusion in the OP, only a question.
It's interesting to see how several people have jumped to their own conclusion, assuming that the OP is using an appeal to majority to assert that instruments are good.
In fact, if you clicked the link and read it, you would know the author is actually pointing people in the opposite direction.
bookslover
Puritan Board Doctor
The answer is: because 95% (or more) of the church is right.
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