Hymaneaus and Philetus.

[Anton Bruckner]

When Paul said that he would hand them over to satan, so that they will learn not to blasphem, is Paul thereby elevating resurrection to the level of orthodoxy. If so, can one be a full preterist and be saved, since full preterism evidently denies the resurrection of the body?

 

[Puritanhead]

It is good that you readily identify the heresy of Hymaneaus and Philetus with full preterism.

You hit the nail on the coffin when you say full preterism evidently denies the resurrection of the body. I've heard different things from disembodied spirits in the afterlife, but whatever it is -- it's heresy. Best I can surmise, full preterists are going to the same place unrepentant Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses go... Their heresy is every bit as dangerous as the errors of Arianism and Monophysism. Well somebody had to say it! Having said that, I can respect the position of partial preterist, and my natural inclination is to assume avowed preterists are partial preterists like R.C. Sproul and Kenneth Gentry.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

The importance of a (future) resurrection cannot be understated among the teachings of Christianity -- it is a cardinal doctrine.

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (1 Cor. 15.12-23)

 

[Anton Bruckner]

I don't want to tout my own horn, but I think this extreme form of preterism that obviously denies basic Christian principles is born out of a need to manifest one's perceived intellectual superiority.

I was over at planetpreterist.com and the full preterists were using all their brain cells in defending this heresy. Of course it was obvious that their IQs were high, so likewise their arrogance, much more than their IQ.

Anyway enough of that. Now will Reformed Community have to recodify the principles of orthodoxy to eliminate the full preterists as unchristian? I say this because, the basic tenets of the Christian faith is to
1. Believe the Trinity.
2. Christ's virgin birth, and sinless life and propitiary death.
3. Resurrection on the third day.
4. Salvation by faith alone (of which many have their own interpretations as to what alone means. i.e the arminians).

But the above is basically all one needs to be a Christian according to our modern view as to what a Christian is. The other issues are considered Christian liberty and as Hank Hannegraff would say, "Non essentials". This is what has given birth to such things as extreme Charismatics, slaying in the spirit, men taking titles for themselves such as Apostle and Prophets etc.

I remember a time when Christianity was much simple. When I was younger, my grandmother imparted the simple faith into me, that Jesus was coming back at the end of the world, all the graves will be empty, and people will go to either heaven or hell. This was so terrifying, that I had child hood dreams in my simplistic puerile imagination that there would actually be very long lines :bigsmile: Nevertheless I got the point. Simple and to the point.

Then I got seduced by the Jehovah's witnesses, then got seduced by Haggee and the rapture teaching, to the purchasing of 9 books from the left behind series.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be overlyzealous for the faith and become a Christian McCarthy and say that some who are of the faith, and not of the faith, but there seems to be too much destructive doctrines that are out there, that are not considered as essentials, with the resurrection being one of them.

 

[rgrove]

The Western Classis of the RCUS has declared the position anathema and a false gospel. I don't know if the RCUS adopted the anathema, though. It appears to have been "forwarded" to the denomination whatever that means (don't know that much about them). I couldn't find the statement on their website, but I knew it has been on the PreteristArchive site for quite a while. Here's that copy:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/CriticalArticles/anathema_reformed-usa_01.html

Anathema of Preterism

By The Reformed Church in the United States

The Reformed Church in the United States
Takes Action to Condemn Hyper-Preterism as Heresy

Overture to the Western Classis

The Spiritual Council of Sacramento Covenant Reformed Church does hereby overture the Western Classis to adopt and forward to the Synod of the Reformed Church in the United States, the following:

"Whereas,

The Hymenaeans called "hyperpreterists" allege, against the clear teaching of God's Inspired and Infallible Word, that there is no physical Resurrection of the body, and whereas

The Hymenaeans called "hyperpreterists" allege, against the clear teaching of God's Inspired and Infallible Word, that the Second Coming of our Lord is already past, and whereas

The Hymenaeans called "hyperpreterists" allege, against the clear teaching of God's Inspired and Infallible Word, that there is no future Great White Throne Judgment, and

Whereas, these views represent a satanic attack upon the holy catholic faith once delivered unto the saints,

Therefore, in the certain Hope of the Resurrection, the Reformed Church in the United States does hereby find the Hymenaean heresy to be contrary to orthodoxy, and its adherents to be preachers of a false gospel. Let these enemies of Christ and His Kingdom be anathema maranatha."

We further urge the Synod of the Reformed Church in the United States to broadly communicate the action taken this day to those of like precious faith, that the people of God may be warned against this false gospel, and encouraged to pray for the repentance of those lost souls who have been enslaved by it.

ADOPTED BY WESTERN CLASSIS MARCH 13, 1997 AND FORWARDED TO SYNOD.

 

[Puritanhead]

Originally posted by Slippery
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be overlyzealous for the faith and become a Christian McCarthy and say that some who are of the faith, and not of the faith, but there seems to be too much destructive doctrines that are out there, that are not considered as essentials, with the resurrection being one of them.

Well I guess that is where 2 Timothy 2:24-25 comes in...

The Apostle Paul felt necessity dictated his excommunication of Hymaneaus and Philetus, because their teachings were destructive of spiritual growth, sound doctrine and the cause of Christ. When you posed your question I don't doubt that believers can be seduced by erroneous doctrines for a season and still be regenerate-- but trampling on the elementary principles you affirmed is tantamount to trampling on one's faith... it's a litmus test.

1. Believe the Trinity.
2. Christ's virgin birth, and sinless life and propitiary death.
3. Resurrection on the third day.
4. Salvation by faith alone (of which many have their own interpretations as to what alone means. i.e the arminians).

The Apostle Paul said he was "saved" when he "took heed to sound doctrine." We need to be unwavering in our affirmations of the fundamentals of the faith.

 

[Fernando]

The creeds, going back at least to the Apostles' Creed, all affirm a future bodily resurrection. Belief in a future resurrection has always been a cardinal tenet of orthodoxy.

Many Christians are fuzzy on their eschatology when it comes to this. They tend to think of themselves spending eternity floating on clouds rather than living on a new earth in a resurrected body. This disembodied view of eternal life fits very well with hyper preterism, and opens the door to it.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Originally posted by Fernando
The creeds, going back at least to the Apostles' Creed, all affirm a future bodily resurrection. Belief in a future resurrection has always been a cardinal tenet of orthodoxy.

Many Christians are fuzzy on their eschatology when it comes to this. They tend to think of themselves spending eternity floating on clouds rather than living on a new earth in a resurrected body. This disembodied view of eternal life fits very well with hyper preterism, and opens the door to it.

 

[Poimen]

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia

Originally posted by Fernando
The creeds, going back at least to the Apostles' Creed, all affirm a future bodily resurrection. Belief in a future resurrection has always been a cardinal tenet of orthodoxy.

Many Christians are fuzzy on their eschatology when it comes to this. They tend to think of themselves spending eternity floating on clouds rather than living on a new earth in a resurrected body. This disembodied view of eternal life fits very well with hyper preterism, and opens the door to it.

That is an uneven number of dittos my friend. You had better make it 12!

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Someone's OCD like me!

 

[Fernando]

While I'm at it, could I encourage the pastors among us to emphasize the resurrection in their teaching? Too many pastors preach at funerals as though the heavenly state of the departed saint is all there is. How many Christians in the pews even know what the term "intermediate state" means?

 

[Poimen]

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Someone's OCD like me!

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? If so, I would agree with that.

 

[Poimen]

Originally posted by Fernando
While I'm at it, could I encourage the pastors among us to emphasize the resurrection in their teaching? Too many pastors preach at funerals as though the heavenly state of the departed saint is all there is. How many Christians in the pews even know what the term "intermediate state" means?

Excellent point.

Heidelberg Catechism

Q57: What comfort do you receive from the "resurrection of the body"?
A57: That not only my soul after this life shall be immediately taken up to Christ its Head,[1] but also that this my body, raised by the power of Christ, shall be reunited with my soul, and made like unto the glorious body of Christ.[2]

1. Luke 23:43; Phil. 1:21-23
2. I Cor. 15:53-54; Job 19:25-27; I John 3:2