How long has it been since you've read Pilgrim's Progress?

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Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Senior
Greetings fellow Pilgrims,

I think I chose the right forum for the topic. What do you think?

I'm reading Pilgrim's Progress for the first time in probably 30 years. Oh, how much it means to me now. Charles Spurgeon said that it was his favorite book of all. I couldn't find the reference, but it seems to me that he said he had read it a hundred times. Now I see why.

Yes, it's an allegory, but in my experience with the many Christians that I know in my church and my family, so far, the only ones I can completely identify with are Christian and Faithful. Pilgrim's Progress has been enjoyed by children, by young Christians, and now I am finding in my later years that it is an ocean of Christian Truth. I can personally identify with almost all the trials and tribulations they go through on their way to Zion.

If you are like me and read it once upon a time years ago, I cannot urge you strongly enough to pick it up and read it. Actually, I'm mostly listening to it from the audible version, expertly read by the very skillful and dramatic David Shaw-Parker. The Amazon link below includes a sample of the audio. It is simply wonderful.

 
I have so much to read now, Ed, but it's a great idea. It's this book I got my Jerusalem Blade handle from:

In John Bunyan's classic, Pilgrim's Progress (part two), Mr. Great-heart is questioning newly-met Mr. Valiant-for-truth concerning his adventures, and asks why he did not cry out for help when overwhelmed. Valiant answers, “So I did to my King, who I knew could hear, and afford invisible help, and that was sufficient for me.” Then said Great-heart to Mr. Valiant-for-truth, “Thou hast worthily behaved thyself; let me see thy Sword;” so he shewed it him.

When he had taken it in his hand, and looked thereon a while, he said, “Ha! It is a right Jerusalem blade.” And Valiant, “It is so. Let a man have one of these blades, with a hand to wield it, and skill to use it, and he may venture upon an Angel with it. He need not fear its holding, if he can but tell how to lay on. Its edges will never blunt. It will cut flesh, and bones, and soul, and spirit and all.”​
 
I haven't read it in a while but I pretty regularly quote the battle with Apollyon as a powerful illustration of spiritual battle.

APOLLYON

But now, in this Valley of Humiliation,
poor CHRISTIAN was hard put to it; for he had gone but a little way, before he espied a foul fiend coming over the field to meet with him; his name was APOLLYON. Then did CHRISTIAN begin to be afraid, and to cast in his mind whether to go back or to stand his ground. But he considered again, that he had no armour for his back, and therefore thought that to turn the back to him might give him greater advantage with ease to pierce him with his darts; therefore he resolved to venture, and stand his ground. For, thought he, had I no more in mine eye than the saving of my life, it would be the best way to stand.

So he went on, and APOLLYON met him. Now the monster was hideous to behold; he was clothed with scales like a fish (and they are his pride); he had wings like a dragon; feet like a bear; and out of his belly came fire and smoke; and his mouth was as the mouth of a lion. When he was come up to CHRISTIAN, he beheld him with a disdainful countenance, and thus began to question with him:

Apollyon. Whence come you, and whither are you bound?

Chr. I am come from the city of Destruction, which is the place of all evil, and am going to the City of Zion.

Apol. By this I perceive thou art one of my subjects; for all that country is mine, and I am the prince and god of it. How is it, then, that thou hast run away from thy king? Were it not that I hope thou mayest do me more service, I would strike thee now at one blow to the ground.

Chr. I was born indeed in your dominions; but your service was hard, and your wages such as a man could not live on, for the wages of sin is death;

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23

therefore, when I was come to years, I did as other prudent persons do, look out, if perhaps I might mend myself.

Apol. There is no prince that will thus lightly lose his subjects; neither will I as yet lose thee. But since thou complainest of thy service and wages, be content to go back; what our country will afford I do here promise to give thee.

Chr. But I have let myself to another, even to the king of princes; and how can I with fairness go back with thee?

Apol. Thou hast done in this according to the proverb, "changed a bad for a worse"; but it is ordinary for those that have professed themselves his servants, after awhile to give him the slip, and return again to me: do thou so too, and all shall be well.

Chr. I have given him my faith, and sworn my allegiance to him; how then can I go back from this, and not be hanged as a traitor?

Apol. Thou didst the same to me; and yet I am willing to pass by all, if now thou wilt yet turn again and go back.

Chr. What I promised thee was before I came of age; and besides, I count that the Prince under whose banner now I stand is able to absolve me; yea, and to pardon also what I did as to my compliance with thee. And besides, O thou destroying APOLLYON, to speak truth, I like his service, his wages, his servants, his government, his company and country, better than thine. Therefore leave off to persuade me further: I am his servant, and I will follow him.

Apol. Consider again, when thou art in cold blood, what thou art like to meet with in the way that thou goest. Thou knowest that for the most part his servants come to an ill end, because they are transgressors against me and my ways. How many of them have been put to shameful deaths! and besides, thou countest his service better than mine, whereas he never came yet from the place where he is, to deliver any that served him out of our hands; but as for me, how many times, as all the world very well knows, have I delivered, either by power or fraud, those that have faithfully served me, from him and his, though taken by them – and so I will deliver thee!

Chr. His forbearing at present to deliver them, is on purpose to try their love, whether they will cleave to him to the end; and as for the ill end thou sayest they come to, that is most glorious in their account. For, for present deliverance, they do not much expect it; for they stay for their glory, and then they shall have it, when their Prince comes in his, and the glory of the angels.

Apol. Thou hast already been unfaithful in thy service to him; and how dost thou think to receive wages of him?

Chr. Wherein, O APOLLYON, have I been unfaithful to him?

Apol. Thou didst faint at first setting out, when thou wast almost choked in the Gulf of Despond; thou didst attempt wrong ways to be rid of thy burden, whereas thou shouldst have stayed till thy Prince had taken it off; thou didst sinfully sleep and lose thy choice thing; thou wast also almost persuaded to go back at the sight of the lions; and when thou talkest of thy journey, and of what thou hast heard and seen, thou art inwardly desirous of vain-glory in all that thou sayest or doest.

Chr. All this is true; and much more which thou hast left out: but the Prince whom I serve and honour is merciful and ready to forgive. But besides, these infirmities possessed me in thy country; for there I sucked them in, and I have groaned under them, been sorry for them, and have obtained pardon of my Prince.

Apol. Then APOLLYON broke out into a grievous rage, saying, "I am an enemy to this Prince: I hate his person, his laws, and people: I am come out on purpose to withstand thee."

Chr. APOLLYON, beware what you do; for I am in the King's highway, the way of holiness: therefore take heed to yourself!

Apol. Then APOLLYON straddled quite over the whole breadth of the way, and said, "I am void of fear in this matter: prepare thyself to die! for I swear by my infernal den that thou shalt go no farther; here will I spill thy soul." And with that he threw a flaming dart at his breast; but CHRISTIAN had a shield in his hand, with which he caught it, and so prevented the danger of that. Then did CHRISTIAN draw, for he saw 't was time to bestir him; and APOLLYON as fast made at him, throwing darts as thick as hail; by the which, notwithstanding all that CHRISTIAN could do to avoid it, APOLLYON wounded him in his head, his hand, and foot. This made CHRISTIAN give a little back; APOLLYON therefore followed his work furiously, and CHRISTIAN again took courage, and resisted as manfully as he could. This sore combat lasted for above half a day, even till CHRISTIAN was almost quite spent. For you must know that CHRISTIAN, by reason of his wounds, grew weaker and weaker.

Then APOLLYON, espying his opportunity, began to gather up close to CHRISTIAN, and wrestling with him, gave him a dreadful fall: and with that, CHRISTIAN'S sword flew out of his hand.

Then said APOLLYON, "I am sure of thee now"; and with that he had almost pressed him to death, so that CHRISTIAN began to despair of life. But as God would have it, while APOLLYON was fetching his last blow, thereby to make a full end of this good man, CHRISTIAN nimbly reached out his hand for his sword, and caught it, saying, "Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy; when I fall, I shall arise";

"Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me." Micah 7:8

and with that, gave him a deadly thrust, which made him give back, as one that had received his mortal wound. CHRISTIAN perceiving that, made at him again, saying, "Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors, through him that loved us".

"Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us." Romans 8:37

And with that, APOLLYON spread forth his dragon's wings, and sped him away,

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

that CHRISTIAN for a season saw him no more.

In this combat no man can imagine, unless he had seen and heard as I did, what yelling and hideous roaring APOLLYON made all the time of the fight – he spake like a dragon; and, on the other side, what sighs and groans burst from CHRISTIAN'S heart. I never saw him all the while give so much as one pleasant look, till he perceived he had wounded APOLLYON with his two edged sword, then, indeed, he did smile, and look upward; but 'twas the dreadfullest sight that ever I saw!

So when the battle was over, CHRISTIAN said, "I will here give thanks to him that hath delivered me out of the mouth of the lion, to him that did help me against APOLLYON"; and so he did, saying:

"Great Beelzebub, the captain of this fiend,
Designed my ruin; therefore to this end
He sent him harnessed out, and he with rage
That hellish was, did fiercely me engage.
But blessed Michael helped me, and I,
By dint of sword did quickly make him fly:
Therefore to him let me give lasting praise
And thanks, and bless his holy name always!"​

Then there came to him a hand, with some of the leaves of the tree of life; the which CHRISTIAN took, and applied to the wounds that he had received in the battle, and was healed immediately. He also sat down in that place to eat bread, and to drink of the bottle that was given him a little before. So being refreshed, he addressed himself to his journey, with his sword drawn in his hand; for he said, "I know not but some other enemy may be at hand." But he met with no other affront from APOLLYON quite through this valley.
 
I read it with the kids during lockdown, although not all the way through. Before that, probably an embarrassingly long time! But it has quite a "live" presence in my mind - the burden rolling off Christian's back at the cross, the oil being poured on to the fire unseen, the lions looking so scary but they were chained, the experience in Vanity Fair, then in the river being able to feel the bottom ... lots of vivid snapshots of Christian experience.

At the time when I read the Holy War, it seemed to speak to me much more powerfully than the Pilgrim's Progress. The way that the people were kitted out with things like "a dumb and prayerless spirit, that scorns to cry for mercy" as a key defence against the gospel. Then the report coming back about Jesus, "for my part, he is such a one that for beauty and glory, I cannot but love him" (roughly from memory). But probably overall, the Pilgrim's Progress would be the more comprehensively helpful of the two.
 
Question: I don't feel the need to read PP with my children because it makes salvation seem like a journey; which goes against how I read with them on the simplicity of faith and coming to Jesus in our bible-reading. Am I missing something here?

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/spurgeons-one-qualm-with-pilgrims-progress/

"I am a great lover of John Bunyan, but I do not believe him infallible; and the other day I met with a story about him which I think a very good one.

There was a young man, in Edinburgh, who wished to be a missionary. He was a wise young man; he thought—“If I am to be a missionary, there is no need for me to transport myself far away from home; I may as well be a missionary in Edinburgh.” . . .

Well, this young man started, and determined to speak to the first person he met. He met one of those old fishwives; those of us who have seen them can never forget them, they are extraordinary women indeed. So, stepping up to her, he said, “Here you are, coming along with your burden on your back; let me ask you if you have got another burden, a spiritual burden.”

“What!” she asked; “do you mean that burden in John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress? Because, if you do, young man, I got rid of that many years ago, probably before you were born. But I went a better way to work than the pilgrim did. The evangelist that John Bunyan talks about was one of your parsons that do not preach the gospel; for he said, ‘Keep that light in thine eye, and run to the wicket-gate.’ Why—man alive!—that was not the place for him to run to. He should have said, ‘Do you see that cross? Run there at once!’ But, instead of that, he sent the poor pilgrim to the wicket-gate first; and much good he got by going there! He got tumbling into the slough, and was like to have been killed by it.”

“But did not you,” the young man asked, “go through any Slough of Despond?”

“Yes, I did; but I found it a great deal easier going through with my burden off than with it on my back.”

The old woman was quite right. John Bunyan put the getting rid of the burden too far off from the commencement of the pilgrimage. If he meant to show what usually happens, he was right; but if he meant to show what ought to have happened, he was wrong.

We must not say to the sinner, “Now, sinner, if thou wilt be saved, go to the baptismal pool; go to the wicket-gate; go to the church; do this or that.”

No, the cross should be right in front of the wicket-gate; and we should say to the sinner, “Throw thyself down there, and thou art safe; but thou are not safe till thou canst cast off thy burden, and lie at the foot of the cross, and find peace in Jesus.”- Spurgeon
 
I must say I haven't read it since my late-teens. Other than the Bible I rarely read long books twice. Not that it wouldn't be a good thing to do in certain cases...
 
Question: I don't feel the need to read PP with my children because it makes salvation seem like a journey; which goes against how I read with them on the simplicity of faith and coming to Jesus in our bible-reading. Am I missing something here?

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/spurgeons-one-qualm-with-pilgrims-progress/

"I am a great lover of John Bunyan, but I do not believe him infallible; and the other day I met with a story about him which I think a very good one.

There was a young man, in Edinburgh, who wished to be a missionary. He was a wise young man; he thought—“If I am to be a missionary, there is no need for me to transport myself far away from home; I may as well be a missionary in Edinburgh.” . . .

Well, this young man started, and determined to speak to the first person he met. He met one of those old fishwives; those of us who have seen them can never forget them, they are extraordinary women indeed. So, stepping up to her, he said, “Here you are, coming along with your burden on your back; let me ask you if you have got another burden, a spiritual burden.”

“What!” she asked; “do you mean that burden in John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress? Because, if you do, young man, I got rid of that many years ago, probably before you were born. But I went a better way to work than the pilgrim did. The evangelist that John Bunyan talks about was one of your parsons that do not preach the gospel; for he said, ‘Keep that light in thine eye, and run to the wicket-gate.’ Why—man alive!—that was not the place for him to run to. He should have said, ‘Do you see that cross? Run there at once!’ But, instead of that, he sent the poor pilgrim to the wicket-gate first; and much good he got by going there! He got tumbling into the slough, and was like to have been killed by it.”

“But did not you,” the young man asked, “go through any Slough of Despond?”

“Yes, I did; but I found it a great deal easier going through with my burden off than with it on my back.”

The old woman was quite right. John Bunyan put the getting rid of the burden too far off from the commencement of the pilgrimage. If he meant to show what usually happens, he was right; but if he meant to show what ought to have happened, he was wrong.

We must not say to the sinner, “Now, sinner, if thou wilt be saved, go to the baptismal pool; go to the wicket-gate; go to the church; do this or that.”

No, the cross should be right in front of the wicket-gate; and we should say to the sinner, “Throw thyself down there, and thou art safe; but thou are not safe till thou canst cast off thy burden, and lie at the foot of the cross, and find peace in Jesus.”- Spurgeon

Yes, it shouldn't be read as a how-to guide, although it does reflect some people's experience. Coming to Jesus doesn't have to be a protracted process, and we shouldn't expect it to be, although that's how it is for some people.

Salvation is a journey afterwards though, in a common scripture metaphor.
 
I am a great lover of John Bunyan, but I do not believe him infallible; and the other day I met with a story about him which I think a very good one.

Hi John,

I am very familiar with this story Spurgeon told. It haunted me a bit during the prolonged time until Pilgrim's burden finally fell off. I breathed a sigh of relief. Struggling long and hard is not an altogether uncommon experience of one's coming to Christ. But Christian met with several things that seemed quite saving.

But give the guy some poetic license. What would we come up with if we were as critical of all of C.S. Lewis's writing?
I mean, I read the Great Divorce about six months ago. Now that was really weird.

I'm just saying.

One of my favorite parts is the long interaction between Christian, Faithful, and one named Talkative. The man who looked much better at a distance than he did up close.

ed
 
Been a few years since. I have the Banner edition with illustrations, and volumes one and two in the one volume. Ed, you asked if this was the 'right forum' to post the thread. Most appropriate I would say. For a bona fide Christian reading it for the first time the identification is quite remarkable. The Christian walk hasn't changed in all these years.
 
The full thing probably every five years or so, although we have a children's version called "Dangerous Journey" which is really good, superb illustrations that is a popular request with the kids every few months or so. It usually takes us 7 or 8 evenings to finish.
 
The full thing probably every five years or so, although we have a children's version called "Dangerous Journey" which is really good, superb illustrations that is a popular request with the kids every few months or so. It usually takes us 7 or 8 evenings to finish.
I think my wife and oldest are reading that right now. They speak highly of it.
 
I read it to my wife (a hobby of ours, leaving her free to do other things while listening) about 3 years ago, the first time either of us read it. It is a blessing. Near the end of part two there is a character who crosses the river but nearly drowns (he has faith, but weak). But instead of being left to his own devices and drown, he is helped across. Praise Jesus Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith!
 
Iv’e read it through fully once but I may be due to do so again.
Have been reading a younger text version with my children at bedtimes called ‘Little Pilgrims Progress’ and the follow up tale with Christiana.
 
Question: I don't feel the need to read PP with my children because it makes salvation seem like a journey; which goes against how I read with them on the simplicity of faith and coming to Jesus in our bible-reading. Am I missing something here?

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/spurgeons-one-qualm-with-pilgrims-progress/

"I am a great lover of John Bunyan, but I do not believe him infallible; and the other day I met with a story about him which I think a very good one.

There was a young man, in Edinburgh, who wished to be a missionary. He was a wise young man; he thought—“If I am to be a missionary, there is no need for me to transport myself far away from home; I may as well be a missionary in Edinburgh.” . . .

Well, this young man started, and determined to speak to the first person he met. He met one of those old fishwives; those of us who have seen them can never forget them, they are extraordinary women indeed. So, stepping up to her, he said, “Here you are, coming along with your burden on your back; let me ask you if you have got another burden, a spiritual burden.”

“What!” she asked; “do you mean that burden in John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress? Because, if you do, young man, I got rid of that many years ago, probably before you were born. But I went a better way to work than the pilgrim did. The evangelist that John Bunyan talks about was one of your parsons that do not preach the gospel; for he said, ‘Keep that light in thine eye, and run to the wicket-gate.’ Why—man alive!—that was not the place for him to run to. He should have said, ‘Do you see that cross? Run there at once!’ But, instead of that, he sent the poor pilgrim to the wicket-gate first; and much good he got by going there! He got tumbling into the slough, and was like to have been killed by it.”

“But did not you,” the young man asked, “go through any Slough of Despond?”

“Yes, I did; but I found it a great deal easier going through with my burden off than with it on my back.”

The old woman was quite right. John Bunyan put the getting rid of the burden too far off from the commencement of the pilgrimage. If he meant to show what usually happens, he was right; but if he meant to show what ought to have happened, he was wrong.

We must not say to the sinner, “Now, sinner, if thou wilt be saved, go to the baptismal pool; go to the wicket-gate; go to the church; do this or that.”

No, the cross should be right in front of the wicket-gate; and we should say to the sinner, “Throw thyself down there, and thou art safe; but thou are not safe till thou canst cast off thy burden, and lie at the foot of the cross, and find peace in Jesus.”- Spurgeon

Huge fan of Spurgeon here and also Pilgrim's Progress.

My take on the obscurity of Christian's salvific timing and the removal of the burden:

Bunyan's report of it resounded very well with me. (And obviously himself). For anyone who had different experiences, maybe Part Two will resonate more with them? Or perhaps one would tinker around with their own experience using the given fictional elements?

But as to the "one qualm"? Myself, I have no idea the time and date I "went through the Wicket Gate" and my burden felt just as heavy until I "saw the Cross" - obviously, this is not literally my first time seeing the cross nor was it the first time I see it with an intellectual understanding of the functionality of the Gospel.

But it was the first time I saw it with a real fullness of my justification and a first-time assurance that God had already forgiven sins I was still needlessly beating on myself for. He had saved me unto Himself in an indescribable but very palpable full union with Christ. The slope of the hill the Cross stands on represents very well the fact that it was not a moment that can be recorded to the minute or hour, but rather a progressive dawning on my heart and mind and soul.

All due respect to Spurgeon but when he said:

No, the cross should be right in front of the wicket-gate; and we should say to the sinner, “Throw thyself down there, and thou art safe; but thou are not safe till thou canst cast off thy burden, and lie at the foot of the cross, and find peace in Jesus.

I think he didn't understand that Calvary's full grace being further down the road from justification was not that the Cross had a limited range that did not extend to the Wicket Gate but that its fullness of assurance (represented in the scroll handed to Christian at the Cross by a Shining One) must necessarily come after justification.

Now in Part Two, Bunyan had Christiana get her assurance before the Cross in the Keeper's (Jesus) house but still after going into the Gate. Notice here that the Keeper (Jesus) was qualified to give the grace of assurance directly to her.

Christian never met the Great Gate-Keeper himself when he was at the Wicket Gate in Part One but he was helped by a human guide named Mr. Good-will (who could not give the "scroll" of assurance as a grace because he was not the Keeper Himself).

Not everyone's experience and journeys will be similar, but the order of events seems reasonable as Bunyan wrote them - and in that order, I side with Bunyan over Spurgeon and I do not understand how one could get assurance before justification (and I have to say again how much I love Spurgeon collecting nearly every writing of his and devouring his homiletic wisdom).
 
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Fair enough, but my point was mainly PP as aimed to kids, young teens, especially in its modified form in the form of children's books
 
Fair enough, but my point was mainly PP as aimed to kids, young teens, especially in its modified form in the form of children's books

Oh yeah. I stay away from the modern language and childrens' versions and read the original out loud modernizing the language myself as I go when I read it to my daughter.

[Note to any huge fans of certain modern versions and childrens' adaptations, I do not know any of them well enough to claim all are conceptually inferior - only that I saw a few that obviously were and simply stopped looking for any others. I do not have any formed opinion on any mentioned previously in this thread.]
 
We read a chaper every Lord’s day. In the last 5 years Ive probably read it 8 or 9 times. If we count children's editions (Littlr Pilgrims Big Journey) i woundnt even be able guess how many times haha.
 
I'm reading Pilgrim's Progress for the first time in probably 30 years. Oh, how much it means to me now. Charles Spurgeon said that it was his favorite book of all. I couldn't find the reference, but it seems to me that he said he had read it a hundred times. Now I see why.

I know, I know–we're all interested in ourselves above others. Isn't that why we are told to love our neighbor as ourselves?

Ephesians 5:28-30​
In the same way, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church because we are members of his body.​

What I'm about to say sounds a little weird even to me.

What Pilgrim's Progress is Meaning to Me

I'll be 71 this November, and I have been a Christian since I was 20. That makes 51 years. Years filled with many dangers, toils, and snares, or as I like to say, "What a Long Strange Trip It's Been." (borrowed from the Dead)

Reading PP is not fiction to me. Instead, I seem to have the most profound possible fellowship with Bunyan himself. Although I know a good number of godly Christians on the PB, plus a handful of faithful believers in my church now and in my past, I have no one with whom I think I have fellowship as deep as I feel I do with the long-dead Bunyan. I genuinely love J. Owen, J. Flavel, and a few others, both living and dead. But Bunyan seems like he really gets me, and I him, in a rare and special way. His – I Will Pray with The Spirit and With the Understanding Also – A Discourse on Prayer was the best representation of what I have come to believe and practice and, therefore, a powerful confirmation that maybe I am at least partially doing something right. We get each other.

In my later life, the Lord has given me an abundance of joy that is both unspeakable and full of glory. And with that comes deep-felt loneliness.
 
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I have a goal of reading every year, but it's more like every two years. But I am always picking it up, reading a bit, and putting down again.
 
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