How does God speak to you ?

[BlackCalvinist]

Simple question. Yes, I realize that this question is typically not phrased or asked this way in reformed circles. I'm playing devil's advocate for all of your non-reformed friends.

Strong impression on the heart to move in a certain direction ?

Small, still voice during those quiet times ?

AUDIBLE (only heard by you) ?

What ?

 

[Larry Hughes]

Kerry,

That is great question because on one side of my family it is very dangerous and confusing on this issue, and very charismatic...I struggled tremendously with it at first and honestly tried to believe what they where saying to be true. I was a fresh Christian, former atheist and scientifically trained. So, I wanted to believe God talked as they seemed to say but my analytical side never could get past, "How do I know its God or my brain inwardly 'talking' to me?" On the other hand I so wanted to distance myself from that which I formerly was AND dying for assurance to the point of absolute dispair - I honestly approached and tried it. But alas, it just caused me more doubts like, "Why doesn't God speak to me the way He does these other Christians - I must not be a Christian."

So, for myself it is always in reference to Scripture that I come 'aware' of something very "powerful" if you will. It is not mystical or anything. But the point of reference is always Scripture. Now, it may be directly Scripture (hearing or reading), hearing or reading someone as they teach and discusss a Scripture or just pondering/meditating upon it. OR it may be a combination like I'm struggling AND grasping part of a Scripture then some sound teacher comes along and something he says/write helps me up and it all comes together. The later may be years apart, I've had that happen.

But the difference in a new grasp of just plain facts and ideas and something more of a spiritual attainment is always this: It is sweet to my soul when it hits, like the first time you really heard the Gospel and lived.

It's kind of hard to put into words other than the Word becomes alive and personal, something like that. That's different than suddenly getting a grasp of Calculus for example.

Oh, and its always reasonable, never esoteric or illogical.

Larry

[Edited on 3-8-2005 by Larry Hughes]

 

[ReformedWretch]

Through His word.

I know that sounds like a canned answer, but as I learn to study more I have honestly seen how our directions are laid out before us. Then, combine that with the knowledge of His sovereignty and providence and all is well.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Originally posted by Larry Hughes
Kerry,

That is great question because on one side of my family it is very dangerous and confusing on this issue, and very charismatic...I struggled tremendously with it at first and honestly tried to believe what they where saying to be true. I was a fresh Christian, former atheist and scientifically trained. So, I wanted to believe God talked as they seemed to say but my analytical side never could get past, "How do I know its God or my brain inwardly 'talking' to me?" On the other hand I so wanted to distance myself from that which I formerly was AND dying for assurance to the point of absolute dispair - I honestly approached and tried it. But alas, it just caused me more doubts like, "Why doesn't God speak to me the way He does these other Christians - I must not be a Christian."

So, for myself it is always in reference to Scripture that I come 'aware' of something very "powerful" if you will. It is not mystical or anything. But the point of reference is always Scripture. Now, it may be directly Scripture (hearing or reading), hearing or reading someone as they teach and discusss a Scripture or just pondering/meditating upon it. OR it may be a combination like I'm struggling AND grasping part of a Scripture then some sound teacher comes along and something he says/write helps me up and it all comes together. The later may be years apart, I've had that happen.

But the difference in a new grasp of just plain facts and ideas and something more of a spiritual attainment is always this: It is sweet to my soul when it hits, like the first time you really heard the Gospel and lived.

It's kind of hard to put into words other than the Word becomes alive and personal, something like that. That's different than suddenly getting a grasp of Calculus for example.

Oh, and its always reasonable, never esoteric or illogical.

Larry

[Edited on 3-8-2005 by Larry Hughes]

Small question Larry (excellent answer, by the way) - why can't what you described above be considered 'supernatural' ?

 

[turmeric]

It IS supernatural, I'm sure! Just not kooky!

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

God speaks to me through the only authentic voice of the Holy Spirit today: The Bible.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Exactly how, Gabriel ? Elucidate for me, please.

I've heard people use the standard 'I heard a word from the preacher straight from John 18 and it just happened to fit exactly to my situation! Maybe God is trying to tell me something!'

and I've also heard:

'Well, I just pray, pop open my bible and let it fall open and that's where I read. I figure that's what God wants me to see today.'

Just trying to get a full, clear definition.

[Edited on 3-8-2005 by OS_X]

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

God's Word is His Word. When I read it, it is Him speaking to me.

 

[Robin]

Originally posted by OS_X
I've heard people use the standard 'I heard a word from the preacher straight from John 18 and it just happened to fit exactly to my situation! Maybe God is trying to tell me something!'

and I've also heard:

'Well, I just pray, pop open my bible and let it fall open and that's where I read. I figure that's what God wants me to see today.'

Just trying to get a full, clear definition.

Both these examples are counter to what Scripture says to do and how to treat the Text - both are individualistic; self-serving; Gnostic; the second reference uses God's Word as a sort of "Ouija board" occultic tool.

What happens when God wants to teach us something we definitely don't want to hear - like about our sinfulness; helplessness; weakness; our destiny of suffering for Christ, etc.? Hmmm.....come to think of it, when someone claims to have heard from the Lord, why doesn't that "word" ever indict them of their sin? Why doesn't God ever tell them "no"?

Another good question is "how do we tell the difference between our own thoughts/voice and God's thoughts/voice?" Is this even possible without Scripture?

We're supposed to test the spirits with Scripture.

R.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

God doesn't speak to us audibly. His Word is all we have.

 

[JonathanHunt]

I agree with Gabriel, not audibly.

I do find that when I am reading the scripture I feel that the Lord is speaking directly to me, but over and above this, when I am praying, and particularly when I am asking and seeking the Lord's will and guidance, he brings scriptures to my mind most clearly and I have no doubt that these are His answers.

Example: I wrestled in prayer whilst driving once, for about half an hour. It was about whether I should stay in my church or seek another. 'Be ye steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord' came to me, and stuck. I repeated it a few times. I was totally arrested by it - I had to stop the car and thank the Lord for His clear guidance.

What wonder! Who are we that Almighty God should speak to us?

JH

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Originally posted by JonathanHunt
I agree with Gabriel, not audibly.

I do find that when I am reading the scripture I feel that the Lord is speaking directly to me, but over and above this, when I am praying, and particularly when I am asking and seeking the Lord's will and guidance, he brings scriptures to my mind most clearly and I have no doubt that these are His answers.

Example: I wrestled in prayer whilst driving once, for about half an hour. It was about whether I should stay in my church or seek another. 'Be ye steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord' came to me, and stuck. I repeated it a few times. I was totally arrested by it - I had to stop the car and thank the Lord for His clear guidance.

What wonder! Who are we that Almighty God should speak to us?

JH

Then you DON'T agree with Gabriel. Your example above falls into the first category I mentioned:

I've heard people use the standard 'I heard a word from the preacher straight from John 18 and it just happened to fit exactly to my situation! Maybe God is trying to tell me something!'

Gabriel, how do you know that your own cultural upbringing, philosophical presuppositions, sense of 'oughtness' , and hermeneutical presuppositions are not tainting your interpretation of the text ?

Robin wrote:

Both these examples are counter to what Scripture says to do and how to treat the Text - both are individualistic; self-serving; Gnostic; the second reference uses God's Word as a sort of "Ouija board" occultic tool.

You misunderstand for several reasons. Number one, while God does deal with His church as a whole, He always does deal with every man individualy on a daily basis. God does deal directly with people via the Holy Spirit's active role in the life of the believer to convict of sin, for example. God has done this with me REPEATEDLY through His Word. Using the first example I gave, who on this board has NOT done something sinful and then, still in our pride, we flip on Christian radio to hear a preacher coming out of a book or passage of scripture which happens to deal with our particular situation.... and we feel convicted. That sense of 'heaviness' comes upon us as we realize the nature of the offense and the One offended and we sometimes have to pull off of the road and pray right then and there and ask for forgiveness - even to the point of turning the car around in the other direction and going back and apologizing to the person we just sinned against.

How is that gnostic ?

What happens when God wants to teach us something we definitely don't want to hear - like about our sinfulness; helplessness; weakness; our destiny of suffering for Christ, etc.? Hmmm.....come to think of it, when someone claims to have heard from the Lord, why doesn't that "word" ever indict them of their sin? Why doesn't God ever tell them "no"?

You're attacking a stereotype now, not my particular argument above. Go re-read, then re-approach this discussion.

Another good question is "how do we tell the difference between our own thoughts/voice and God's thoughts/voice?" Is this even possible without Scripture?

That IS a very good question. Too often we CAN mistake God's guidance on a particular matter for our own thoughts and desires OR we can mistake the well-meaning advice of friends for the leading of God on a particular issue. I do have an answer for that (it's in my blog as a matter of fact......). I'll refer to it soon.

What wonder! Who are we that Almighty God should speak to us?

Last I checked, His children (John 1:10-13), friends (John 15), a royal preisthood, His own special people (Titus 2:14-16), folks able to come boldly before the throne of grace..... those sound like pretty intimate terms to me and not a God that simply left an instruction manual and said 'fend for yourselves'......

The REAL question is......Who are we that He should even grace us with salvation and this type of relationship with Him at all ? (and the answer is found....and NOT found....in Romans 9:14-18)

[Edited on 3-8-2005 by OS_X]

 

[JonathanHunt]

Originally posted by OS_X
Originally posted by JonathanHunt
I agree with Gabriel, not audibly.

Then you DON'T agree with Gabriel. Your example above falls into the first category I mentioned:

I agreed with him in that he said there was no audible voice. And I am sure that Gabe would affirm that the Lord's word, the bible, leaves a very strong impression on him day by day, as it does on me?

jh

 

[Robin]

I have a great heaviness in my heart - Kerry...you sound quite defensive - using words like "attack" and presuming my heart by stating such (building up straw-men)....when it is YOU that opened the conversation inviting commentary. You don't sound teachable - rather, it seems you want to stomp on others --- justifying your position.

It sounds like you have a strong bent on establishing your point via your experiences...and not a very careful understanding of Scripture. Your many words on the subject point to what you know --- and not much of what Scripture says.

Of course - I agree with and understand God works directly with His people --- the right question is HOW and how is that communication discerned and kept in good order - under the authority of Scripture; the Church; Pastors; elders, etc. God's pattern is that we are all accountable.

Where in Scripture - is a "Lone-Christian" doing their own thing - "Jesus and me" - hearing or receiving impressions as to what to do next in life? God imbues each with the responsibility to make wise decisions based on His Word. Yet, we are to be bound to a local body and submit to the authority of Pastors-elders and each other. Even pastors and elders must be proven (not self-appointed.) The Apostles submitted to each other - in humility, fear and consideration of God's authority.

I think you're one of those (Paul warns Timothy of) that has an unhealthy interest in quarrels and controversies. I'm going to avoid being involved with your posts --- you sound proud and self-appointed. They are quarrels about words - that don't seem to edify. (At least for me.)

So far, I see no possibility of dialogging with you.

Robin

[Edited on 3-8-2005 by Robin]

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Originally posted by Robin
I have a great heaviness in my heart - Kerry...you sound quite defensive - using words like "attack" and presuming my heart by stating such (building up straw-men)....when it is YOU that opened the conversation inviting commentary. You don't sound teachable - rather, it seems you want to stomp on others --- justifying your position.

Not at all. And if it seems like I am defensive, I'm not. I may need to work on presentation - the last reply was typed hastily, since I needed to eat lunch and prepare for the next set of kids coming (I'm at work). I can tone back.

And I'm far from not teachable. The problem may be that you're communicating with me via bits and bytes.... and you can't hear tone, inflection, read body language, etc.... simply by electronic medium, no matter how many smilies you use.

It sounds like you have a strong bent on establishing your point via your experiences...and not a very careful understanding of Scripture.

You're entitled to your opinion. If I were 'unteachable', I wouldn't have ever given a thought to the doctrines of grace between 98 and 2000 when a brother in Christ challenged me to re-evaluate my theology.... nor would I feel the need to interact with other brothers and sisters in Christ - I'd be sufficient unto myself.... (and I'm NOT....)

I actually don't do 'experience' as the litmus test of truth... again, you don't know me, you only know your own interactions with folks who've said similar things and you seek to judge on the basis of those. I don't do the 'word from the Lord' thing. I do believe that the Spirit is active in the life of the believer.

Of course - I agree with and understand God works directly with His people --- the right question is HOW and how is that communication discerned and kept in good order - under the authority of Scripture; the Church; Pastors; elders, etc. God's pattern is that we are all accountable.

I never said differently. Hebrews 13, Matthew 16, 18 and 1 Tim. are all presupposed by my argument. I have simply presented a daily scenario that I've seen happen to both the Reformed and non-reformed. Perhaps a better term would be providence - the Lord ordering the steps of a man to bring about conviction of sin, progressive sanctification on a daily basis and guidance. While these are not 'audible voices' by any means (and I'm not arguing for audible voices by the way), the Lord who orders the steps of men according to His Sovereign will does use these things to bring about change in the life of the believer and guide him/her in the direction He wants him/her to go in. I may term this as the Lord speaking into my life, but do not mistake it for me hearing some audible voice from heaven in the back of my head.

I (again) cite another example. Years ago, my ex-fianceé contacted me after a two year break from talking to me and finally 'explained' the reason we broke up. Without getting detailed, I was quite bitter and angry upon finding out the truth. I debated for a while on what to do and shared my dilemma with a few of my brothers and sisters in Christ who were close to me and knew her and I and the whole thing. Between one brother pointing me to the parable of the unjust servant that owed his master big time and the Pastor running over the memory verse from the previous week (Eph. 4:32) which seemed to THUNDER across the pulpit to me when he read it (even the Pastor's son, who was standing right next to me at the time chuckled, looked at me and said 'That was for you.' I can't describe it, but the 'light' went on in my head and I knew it was what the Lord would have me to do - not just because it's a command, but because He ordained that I be there in church, standing right where I needed to be standing to hear this with those very thoughts flowing through my mind.

How are these two examples contrary to scripture ? Please enlighten me. I am seriously trying to understand what the problem is.

Where in Scripture - is a "Lone-Christian" doing their own thing - "Jesus and me" - hearing or receiving impressions as to what to do next in life?

Why do we have a 'pray ye like this' forum ? We have people praying for people's plans. Why ? If the door opens for the person's plans, is that truly the Lord's will ? Or is there another better opportunity around the corner ? Please explain to me how one should discern between these two options.

Again... my experience has been different.... but I'd like to hear your explanation.

God imbues each with the responsibility to make wise decisions based on His Word. Yet, we are to be bound to a local body and submit to the authority of Pastors-elders and each other.

Okay... and again.... this isn't even the issue we're discussing here. I don't know how you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, but I invite you to go re-read... especially what's in this thread.

I think you're one of those (Paul warns Timothy of) that has an unhealthy interest in quarrels and controversies. I'm going to avoid being involved with your posts --- you sound proud and self-appointed. They are quarrels about words - that don't seem to edify. (At least for me.)

So far, I see no possibility of dialogging with you.

Robin

Now that wasn't very edifying, was it ? I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps someone willing to actually talk with me and not name call will talk with me on this. I'm coming from a different theological tradition and I'm attempting to understand here.

[Edited on 3-8-2005 by OS_X]

[Edited on 3-8-2005 by OS_X]

 

[BlackCalvinist]

You know what... Joshua, somebody else.... close this thread. I have a feeling that no good can come of this anymore.

 

[Scott Bushey]

okee dokeee Kerry.

Everyone be cool.