How can I draw my peers to more holy living?

[CovenantPatriot87]

Hi everyone; first post here!

I’m curious what thoughts/advice you could share on this. I am 29 years old and have been attending and serving in an overall healthy church for the last 2 years now. I’ve had growing concern for others in the church, mainly those in their 20s or 30s, who I consider to be most in my sphere of influence.

I just see an overall lack of holiness in my peers, and a lack of concern or drive to be more holy. When we chat about life in our times of fellowship, there is little that would convince an outsider tuning in that there is anything distinctly Christian about us. Multiple times I’ve heard praise and recommendations given for very worldly tv shows and movies. Everything is humorous, nothing is serious. I don’t get the sense that anyone has a particularly deep prayer life or are seeking God in the Scriptures on a regular basis.

I’ve greatly enjoyed reading about M’Cheyne lately, and his personal holiness. I’ve seen him as a kind of a role model for Christlikeness. It is a joy to have him as a sort of companion in my Christian walk. But I otherwise feel quite lonely in my Christian journey. I sometimes feel weird and unrelatable with those whom I should have the deepest connection. I know I am to expected to be an outcast in the world, but should it be as such in the church?

So, I guess my main questions are, how do I influence my friends towards godliness, how do I graciously turn them away from some of the things I know they shouldn’t be doing (like watching worldly media), how do I help them develop meaningful prayer lives, and how do I do all this without seeming like some sort of killjoy? I love these people. I want to share in the joys of Christ with them. Thoughts?

You sound like me as a new believer 17 years ago, and it has more to do with you than with them. Especially in the bold assumption that they somehow arent as spiritual as you. How is your own Godliness? Are you developing a meaningful prayers life? Are you living the joys of Christ? Are you seeking God in the Scriptures? If your asking us how they can do things you dont know how to do or you have never done, im more concerned with you than them. As Paul washer preach many years ago, "is your Christianity worth exporting"? Or will it produce a twofold child of hell? Be thankful they showed up to church, and keep building relationships with them. I see no cause of immediate concern since your descriptions of the concerns are vague and unspecified. It's not always going to be red hot on fire for the Lord. Even a tree that produces some fruit, like 30 fold or less than half, is acceptable.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

You sound like me as a new believer 17 years ago, and it has more to do with you than with them. Especially in the bold assumption that they somehow arent as spiritual as you. How is your own Godliness? Are you developing a meaningful prayers life? Are you living the joys of Christ? Are you seeking God in the Scriptures? If your asking us how they can do things you dont know how to do or you have never done, im more concerned with you than them. As Paul washer preach many years ago, "is your Christianity worth exporting"? Or will it produce a twofold child of hell? Be thankful they showed up to church, and keep building relationships with them. I see no cause of immediate concern since your descriptions of the concerns are vague and unspecified. It's not always going to be red hot on fire for the Lord. Even a tree that produces some fruit, like 30 fold or less than half, is acceptable.

This is a strange response.

 

[retroGRAD3]

You sound like me as a new believer 17 years ago, and it has more to do with you than with them. Especially in the bold assumption that they somehow arent as spiritual as you. How is your own Godliness? Are you developing a meaningful prayers life? Are you living the joys of Christ? Are you seeking God in the Scriptures? If your asking us how they can do things you dont know how to do or you have never done, im more concerned with you than them. As Paul washer preach many years ago, "is your Christianity worth exporting"? Or will it produce a twofold child of hell? Be thankful they showed up to church, and keep building relationships with them. I see no cause of immediate concern since your descriptions of the concerns are vague and unspecified. It's not always going to be red hot on fire for the Lord. Even a tree that produces some fruit, like 30 fold or less than half, is acceptable.

You are making a lot of assumption here as well about our brother. You basically assume that he is a hypocrite and that all of his friends have no issues. I believe he was looking for help in this thread and all you offered was judgment.

Just because you did something out of wrong motives before does not mean that is what is happening here.

 

[alexanderjames]

Hebrews 3:13, Hebrews 10:24
1 Thessalonians 5:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:14.

Let’s keep discussing how we can do this practically. I’ve been inspired by the thread to put more effort into achieving this with my friends.

 

[alexanderjames]

Thanks, it helps a lot - not that you are in the least responsible to me in anything! I would encourage everyone to read Newton's select letters, especially those first three on spiritual growth (Grace in the blade; Grace in the ear; Grace in the full corn). Those are pastoral gold, and help us to be patient with people's weakness, remembering that it is the Holy Spirit's job to sanctify us and them (and he will not fail in that task).

I concur these letters are encouraging. Christopher Love’s sermons, those in a book called ‘Grace’, are similarly edifying. https://www.donkistler.org/store/p50/Grace:_The_Truth,_Growth,_and_Different_Degree_.html#/

And knowing ourselves in we have patience for others.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Dr. Duguid, I don’t think my desire is to correct anyone. I’m sorry that anything in my post appeared prideful. I hope that is not what is going on within me…

I am frustrated because I am trying to grow in my own holiness and I see little in my peers that indicates they are on the same journey with me. It is discouraging.

Yes, I have talked with my pastor about this some. As I have only been at this church a few years, I am only recently seeing the severity of the situation, as I’ve talked with people more and more and been in different social situations with them. As people have gotten to know me and become more comfortable around me, they have more frequently shared personal bits about themselves, like what they are watching, or what they do in their free time, etc.

I have not talked extensively with my pastor, but it is an ongoing discussion as we get to know our people. He has only been at the church a few years as well. We are learning things together. At this point he acknowledges the concern and is glad I am in community with these younger people and can help him get an idea of where everyone is at. With the specific situation about the movie suggested by someone to other people in the church, my pastor suggested I ask him why he thinks that’s a good movie to suggest to other Christians. I did not have an immediate opportunity for that discussion and at this point it might be weird to bring it up since it has been a little while, but if a similar situation arises with that individual, I would like to pick his brain on it.

As a fellow church member, I want to love our people and grow in relationship with them. I do not want anyone to see me as the pastoral intern who is policing everything and trying to please the pastor.

Hope this additional context helps. Thank you.

You've received some helpful advice.

I'm trying to figure out how to best express something myself that others have expressed to you as well.

It is good to never lose your personal zeal for what is right and how you ought to conduct yourself as a serious Christian. You can also lament at the spiritual maturity of others and wish more for them than they wish for themselves.

There is also an unhealthy "concern" for the way things are vs the way they ought to be that can make one unable to be thankful for others even in their respective weaknesses.

I write this from personal experience because the first decade or more of my exposure to the doctrines of grace made me both very thankful for it and very frustrated at the Church at large. I haven't lost my zeal for what is right, but I've also stopped treating everyone who lacks maturity as someone I need to "fix" before I can love/appreciate them.

As one example, I stopped referring to fellow Church members in immature congregations as "Arminians" because I realized I was thinking of them as theologically incompetent as opposed to someone I needed to love/appreciate and provide help when asked or when the opportunity arose.

Again, I'm not suggesting that you should just shrug your shoulders when someone suggests you watch Game of Thrones or seems to lack spiritual formation. All I'm suggesting is that you ought to pray for the ability to grow in your love/appreciation for the people who are around you rather than the people you wish they were.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Hi everyone; first post here!

I’m curious what thoughts/advice you could share on this. I am 29 years old and have been attending and serving in an overall healthy church for the last 2 years now. I’ve had growing concern for others in the church, mainly those in their 20s or 30s, who I consider to be most in my sphere of influence.

I just see an overall lack of holiness in my peers, and a lack of concern or drive to be more holy. When we chat about life in our times of fellowship, there is little that would convince an outsider tuning in that there is anything distinctly Christian about us. Multiple times I’ve heard praise and recommendations given for very worldly tv shows and movies. Everything is humorous, nothing is serious. I don’t get the sense that anyone has a particularly deep prayer life or are seeking God in the Scriptures on a regular basis.

I’ve greatly enjoyed reading about M’Cheyne lately, and his personal holiness. I’ve seen him as a kind of a role model for Christlikeness. It is a joy to have him as a sort of companion in my Christian walk. But I otherwise feel quite lonely in my Christian journey. I sometimes feel weird and unrelatable with those whom I should have the deepest connection. I know I am to expected to be an outcast in the world, but should it be as such in the church?

So, I guess my main questions are, how do I influence my friends towards godliness, how do I graciously turn them away from some of the things I know they shouldn’t be doing (like watching worldly media), how do I help them develop meaningful prayer lives, and how do I do all this without seeming like some sort of killjoy? I love these people. I want to share in the joys of Christ with them. Thoughts?

I just began listening to a sermon from Joel Beeke recommended by MW on another thread, and thought of you. Maybe you could ask one or more of those friends- esp if any of them seem desirous to grow in grace- to listen to it, together or apart, and pray and discuss. It seems a great fit for your situation. “Richard Sibbes on Entertaining the Holy Spirit”https://web.sermonaudio.com/sermons/83111145435

 

[Stephen L Smith]

It seems a great fit for your situation. “Richard Sibbes on Entertaining the Holy Spirit”https://web.sermonaudio.com/sermons/83111145435

Thank you Jeri. This sermon is very edifying. It is also included in the book 'The beauty and glory of the Holy Spirit' which is a very instructive book on the Holy Spirit, particularly on the importance of the work of the Spirit in our sanctification.

The Beauty and Glory of the Holy Spirit (Beeke, ed.)

Puritan and Reformed books at discounted prices.

www.heritagebooks.org

 

[Ed Walsh]

Tv shows and movies that Christians have no business watching. I’ve heard Oppenheimer recommended by a brother to a several other guys, and I know that film has blatant nudity in it.

I'm dating myself a bit, but I remember when I was leading the high school group in my church Sunday School, there was a big splash made over the Titanic movie. [no pun intended] I only watched a few clips and read some reviews, but it was pretty easy to decide this was not for 15 and 16-year-old Christians. I talked with them, reasoned with them, all the while being very careful not to embarrass them, and had fairly good success getting them to see that what they enjoyed was a crude, worldly and very immoral movie. I don't know your thoughts, but that was mine and how I handled it.

 

[michael_topple]

I'm dating myself a bit, but I remember when I was leading the high school group in my church Sunday School, there was a big splash made over the Titanic movie. [no pun intended] I only watched a few clips and read some reviews, but it was pretty easy to decide this was not for 15 and 16-year-old Christians. I talked with them, reasoned with them, all the while being very careful not to embarrass them, and had fairly good success getting them to see that what they enjoyed was a crude, worldly and very immoral movie. I don't know your thoughts, but that was mine and how I handled it.

The challenge, which you clearly achieved in your discussions about Titanic, is how to show Christians (of any age, but perhaps particularly youngsters) that turning away from crudity does not make you boring: for you are rejecting earthly, bodily, pleasure and accepting in its place heavenly joy and pleasure that knows no bounds.
It's why I get irritated when people make out that the Puritans were joyless. Yes they rejected many earthly pleasures: but took on instead a heavenly joy that knows no end!

 

[Ed Walsh]

It's why I get irritated when people make out that the Puritans were joyless.

Joyless? Are you kidding? The Puritans rediscovered sex. They even related sex as an earthly picture of the most intimate relationship between God and man. There's a wedding feast and an eternal honeymoon to follow. There are many similies in Scripture that picture our relationship to Christ. For example, younger to older brother, vine and branches, even adoption; although close to the ultimate, marriage is the ultimate relationship.

EDIT: This whole Christian thing is not just something God is doing now; maybe someday He will have some other thing to do. As Christ became man–true man, not just for a time but for all eternity future. So we will become like Him. God is spreading His goodness to include a new family. Although we are confined to something called time, we humans are somehow tied to God's eternity. Whatever the definition of heavenly genes is, we will have them. We have them now. (1 John 3:9) When Jesus looks at His bride now, He looks and smiles at our fretting, sometimes fearful ways and thinks but one thought. What's not to love? Jesus' view of us now reminds me of the song Bargain by the Who. (Hebrews 12:2) Don't fret, little children. You are spotless in His sight. He is more anxious to be with you than you are to be with Him.

Ephesians 5:31-32​

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and be joined unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh. ​

This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.​

 

[michael_topple]

Joyless? Are you kidding? The Puritans rediscovered sex. They even related sex as an earthly picture of the most intimate relationship between God and man. There's a wedding feast and an eternal honeymoon to follow. There are many similies in Scripture that picture our relationship to Christ. For example, younger to older brother, vine and branches, even adoption; although close to the ultimate, marriage is the ultimate relationship.

Ephesians 5:31-32​

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and be joined unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh. ​

This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.​

I should clarify I don’t think they were joyless at all, but surely you’ve come across the stuffy Puritan stereotype that pervades many people’s view of Church history?
Someone once called me a Puritan in an attempt to upset me. I took it as a great compliment!

 

[michael_topple]

EDIT: This whole Christian thing is not just something God is doing now; maybe someday He will have some other thing to do. As Christ became man–true man, not just for a time but for all eternity future. So we will become like Him. God is spreading His goodness to include a new family. Although we are confined to something called time, we humans are somehow tied to God's eternity. Whatever the definition of heavenly genes is, we will have them. We have them now. (1 John 3:9) When Jesus looks at His bride now, He looks and smiles at our fretting, sometimes fearful ways and thinks but one thought. What's not to love? Jesus' view of us now reminds me of the song Bargain by the Who. (Hebrews 12:2) Don't fret, little children. You are spotless in His sight. He is more anxious to be with you than you are to be with Him

What a wonderful addendum, Ed. You’re so right.
2 Cor. 4. 17 comes to mind:
For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory.

 

[Recipient of Grace]

Someone once called me a Puritan in an attempt to upset me. I took it as a great compliment!

I hope to someday have the high honor of being called a Puritan!