Help with Unicode

Discussion in 'Languages' started by DTK, Apr 8, 2009.

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  1. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    I would be grateful for any instructions (or a source on the web) about how to use unicode to reflect your Greek font in an electronic format, such as a word processor.

    DTK
     
  2. Whitefield

    Whitefield Puritan Board Junior

  3. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    David,

    You should install the Logos Greek/Hebrew keyboard. The instructions will show you how to set up the language for Greek and Hebrew. Then all you have to do is use a Unicode font (like Cardo, SBLGreek).

    Here is the link:
    Windows Keyboards for Ancient Languages

    You don't need Logos to use them.
    Unicode, Fonts, and Keyboards

    If you need more help, just ask.
     
  4. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    Fred,

    I know this is a stupid question, but having installed the Greek and Hebrew Logos keyboards, what are the names of the respective Greek/Hebrew fonts?

    Are these automatically unicode?

    And, if it's not too much trouble, what is the deal with the Unshifted, Shift, and AltGr States?

    I know I'm a pain in the neck, if not in the rear.

    Thanks,
    DTK

    -----Added 4/8/2009 at 11:19:36 EST-----

    Ok, stupid question, I know now the shifted/unshifted part.

    What is the AltGr State?

    Thanks,
    DTK
     
  5. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    David,

    There is no "unicode Greek font." It is not a stupid question - since it is complicated and a (relatively) new development. I've been using unicode for years now only because I used it in seminary.

    Basically, unicode is a font "protocol" (for lack of a better word) that allows any font with sufficient resources to display Greek lettering. So for example, when you "initiate" unicode through the language toolbar (to use the Logos keyboard method) you can type in Greek in any number of fonts. That is the huge advantage of Unicode.

    Whereas before (for example) you had to have a Greek font installed (like BWGreek from BibleWorks) and the recipient of the document had to have the same font installed to read it, now you can "embed" (not the proper term, but you get the idea) the Greek. So you can type Greek characters in Times New Roman (with some restrictions like certain accents) as long as you have enabled the Unicode Greek language. Same goes for Arial. The best Greek Unicode fonts I have found are:

    SBL Greek
    [FONT=&quot]ὁ λόγος ὁ θεός[/font]


    Gentium
    ὁ λόγος ὁ θεός


    Cardo
    [FONT=&quot]ὁ λόγος ὁ θεός[/FONT]

    I hope that helps.
     
  6. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    Thanks Fred, now then, just exactly how do I "initiate" unicode through the language toolbar (to use the Logos keyboard method)?

    I feel like a first grader.

    DTK
     
  7. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    I'm using the fonts from Tyndale House.

    Tyndale House:

    There is no charge, and it fairly straightforward. In Windows, after installing, you can choose your language in a little box at the bottom of the toolbar, and then type according the the keyboard template that they supply.

    It works pretty well: αβγδ אבגד

    I typed those without having to do anything except change the language button. In MS Word, I made a macro so I don't even have to do that. The keyboard templates provide options for vowel pointing and accents.
     
  8. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    Well, I'd love to create that Macro in MS Word for me. If it's not too much of a bother, do you have any instructions to offer?

    Thanks,
    DTK
     
  9. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    Are you using Vista or XP?
     
  10. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    Fred,

    I'm using Vista

    DTK
     
  11. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    In this link you could follow the steps under "recording steps." Don't worry about "visual basic." http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/HP051894201033.aspx


    First you want to have your fonts installed. Then make sure you have a language choice mode somewhere on your deskbar or tool bar. If you click it, you get the options for "EN" (English), "EL" (Greek), and "HE" (Hebrew). Those will show up no matter what program you have open.

    Depending upon which version of Word you have, there is a tab for allowing recording a macro. In Word 2007, it is under "Developer." When you click that, you get an option to record macros. Click that and it will ask you if you want to store as a button or keyboard, I usually choose keyboard and it asks what key strokes you want to trigger the macro, and then you start recording. While recording, you just perform the keystrokes or mouse clicks to do thing you want the macro to do and it records the strokes. When done, click the "Stop Recording" icon (usually it shows up like a miniature cassette recorder) and you have a macro.

    So for example, to do hebrew, I name the key sequence (I chose Alt-H), then started recording. I clicked the language choice (default is EN for English) and other choices opened up. I clicked HE. Then stop recording.

    It's really very simple once you try it a few times.

    For my Hebrew macro, I set Alt-H. I switch back to English with Alt-E, and for Greek I use Alt-G.
     
  12. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    David,

    Do you have a little language indicator on your task bar? It would look like the attachment to this post. If you click on it, it should give you multiple options:

    EN (English)

    EL (Greek)

    HE (Hebrew)

    You can switch languages by selecting the language.
     
  13. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior


    Yes Fred, I see it now.

    Thanks,
    DTK
     
  14. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    Using Vic's instructions above will work fine. One other thing: once you start recording the Macro you should not only switch languages, but also fonts. You want to use the right font.

    I would also record an "English" macro to get you back. But for that, don't switch fonts, but rather select "Normal" for the type of style text. That will get you back to the normal font for the document, whatever it happens to be.

    I've also attached a ZIP of SBL Greek and SBL Hebrew fonts to our web server.

    http://www.cckpca.org/files/fonts.zip
     
  15. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    Thanks,

    I don't think I understand. I prefer the button, so for the macro I chose a font (not knowing what else to do), the button is now in MS Word, but I don't know how to make the macro button (which is now the Gentium font) interact/interface with the EN language display.

    I guess I can just click the language display every time I want to change the font in MS Word.

    I don't want to take up any more of your valuable time. I appreciate what you've done already.

    Blessings,
    DTK
     
  16. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    David,

    I think the idea is to be in MS Word and:

    1. Start the macro recorder
    2. Switch keyboards using the language bar button
    3. Switch fonts in MS Word
    4. Turn off the macro recorder

    That should give you a macro that automatically does steps #2 and #3 above. You do that for all three languages (Greek, Hebrew and English).

    Does anyone know how to send a macro to someone? If so, I could just get my macros (which do what I outline above) to David.
     
  17. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    Fred,

    With Vista, I don't know where to extract and install these fonts. I hate to ask such a simple question, but I'm clueless.

    DTK
     
  18. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    Nevermind Fred, I figured it out.

    Thanks,
    DTK

    -----Added 4/9/2009 at 02:39:10 EST-----

    SBL Greek λόγος
    Bibleworks Greek λόγος

    I think I've made progress.

    Thanks again,
    DTK
     
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