Help on the heresy of Jesus "dying" spiritually

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3John2

Puritan Board Freshman
Help on the heresy of Jesus \"dying\" spiritually

I often post at another board that is charismatic. Don't agree with almost anything there anymore. But one thing that bothered me even when I agreed on a lot of stuff was the heresy brought about by EW KEnyon that Jesus "died spiritually" at Calvary. I didn't believe it then much less now but how do you refute such a thought?
Thing is it needs to be simple enough for a charismatic to understand. I can't imagine people with so little doctrine reading apologetics so if anyone can help withe a laymans version of this I would GREATLY appreciate it.:augustine:
 

turmeric

Megerator
Jesus lived the life we should have lived - He died the death we should have died. He did not die spiritually, He bore the wrath of God that should fall on us. When He said, "It is finished." the debt was entirely paid. Then He said, "Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit." He did not commend His spirit to the devil.

Hope that was simple. This is often called the Christus Victor heresy. Heresy isn't terribly original.
 

Tallen

Puritan Board Freshman
I often post at another board that is charismatic. Don't agree with almost anything there anymore. But one thing that bothered me even when I agreed on a lot of stuff was the heresy brought about by EW KEnyon that Jesus "died spiritually" at Calvary. I didn't believe it then much less now but how do you refute such a thought?
Thing is it needs to be simple enough for a charismatic to understand. I can't imagine people with so little doctrine reading apologetics so if anyone can help withe a laymans version of this I would GREATLY appreciate it.:augustine:


The heresy is in the identification of man and God. The Word-Faith religion confuses this issue and exalts man to the state of God and denigrates God to the state of man. In this man is able to create with his words and is the sovereign of the world and the things in it. Even to the point that man holds the keys of letting God operate in the temporal creation. It is only through man's faith that God can operate.

But the worst and most evil part of the theology is that it gives Christ a human nature that becomes identified with fallen man to the point that He takes a Satanic nature in the atonement. That is their definition of Spiritual Death, and for the sinner He becomes sin, literally. His holy and pure nature is changed into a corrupted and sinful state so that He can go to hell and fight the devil and the demons. After a time God declares Him a justified man, and He becomes the first "born again" person. He is raised in this new position where as the first born again man He is given a position at the right hand of God as Lord.

How do we defend against this, by pointing out that this is an antichrist religion and based in the philosophies and traditions of men like E. W. Kenyon. It is un-scriptural and given to unique ideas that have never been a part of the Christian Faith. The basis is the redefinition of historical terms and doctrine, like spiritual death, and the need to define all things according to the theology. The theology becomes the infallible rule which determines all of the terms, views, traditions and reading that the adherent does.

Please take a minute and read the following article, as it is a good view of how the theology works. Consider:

http://ladtoo.org/articles/eclectictheology.php

I wrote this article to address the error of the W-F apologists, and he refuses to address the article or comment publicly about it. He says that he is taking a higher road and not arguing about nonessential doctrine. My contention is that the character of Jesus Christ is of the utmost essential nature of the Christian Faith. There are a couple of other articles on that page as well that address W-F issues and apologists. Please realize the insidious nature and deception of this religion as it causes the adherent to adopt an Eclectic Theology and read all things through those colored glasses.

Blessings, and keep up the good work.
 

R. Scott Clark

Puritan Board Senior
If the movement is suggesting that Jesus didn't die physically then they are guilty of docetism (fr. Greek dokeo - "to appear"), i.e., the claim that Jesus only appeared to be human.

In this case the real issue is the two natures of Christ. The Biblical and catholic and Reformed faith is that Jesus is one person with two natures. As true man he really did gestate in the womb of the virgin, he really ate and digested food, he really grew physically from infancy to adulthood, he really suffered and died. His dead body was placed in a tomb and was revived on the third day.

To deny these things places one outside the Christian faith. It destroys one of the chief grounds of Christian assurance, that we have a high priest who has been tempted as we are in every respect, sin excepted. He is, with his true humanity, at the right hand of the Father representing us in his perfect, actual righteousness. As Meg says, as our true human representative he obeyed the law for all who trust him and as a true human he shall return to consummate the new heavens and earth.

rsc
 

Tallen

Puritan Board Freshman
If the movement is suggesting that Jesus didn't die physically then they are guilty of docetism (fr. Greek dokeo - "to appear"), i.e., the claim that Jesus only appeared to be human.

They don't deny the physical death of Christ, but extend the atonement past the cross and into hell. Saying that His death was both physical and spiritual. The spiritual death is redefined as taking a Satanic nature. It is said, "That He became a sinner for the sinner, a homosexual for the homosexual, a murderer for a murderer, a liar for the liar", etc. In this, His physical death and shedding of blood is not what atones for sin, but it is found in a mythical battle with the devil, in hell.

In this case the real issue is the two natures of Christ. The Biblical and catholic and Reformed faith is that Jesus is one person with two natures. As true man he really did gestate in the womb of the virgin, he really ate and digested food, he really grew physically from infancy to adulthood, he really suffered and died. His dead body was placed in a tomb and was revived on the third day.

Agreed.

To deny these things places one outside the Christian faith. It destroys one of the chief grounds of Christian assurance, that we have a high priest who has been tempted as we are in every respect, sin excepted. He is, with his true humanity, at the right hand of the Father representing us in his perfect, actual righteousness. As Meg says, as our true human representative he obeyed the law for all who trust him and as a true human he shall return to consummate the new heavens and earth.

Agreed again.
 
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