Help!I'm being John 3:sixteened to death!

Just have your friend look at the context of John 3:16. That verse alone still doesn't support his ideas. It states that those who believe won't perish...it says nothing of man's natural state...just that those who believe won't perish.

I would have him go to the beginning of the chapter and note that Jesus is talking with Nicodemus...and emphasize what Nicodemus was astonished at:

[quote:25fa2d39a0]
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kindgom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born can he?" 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and th Spirit he cannot enter into the kindgom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh., and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going' so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." 9 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?"
[/quote:25fa2d39a0]

[Edited on 4-29-2004 by Craig]

[Edited on 4-29-2004 by Craig]

 

brother. I feel for you it is a constant battle. I get people all the time who think I'm nuts because i believe in the Authority of God's Word, or the Soveriegnty of God, or Election. It is amazing to me that most people won't even consider honestly looking at the scriptures. We are in a war, of that I have no doubt, and the only thing we can do is continue to stand for the truth and pray that the eyes of their understanding might be opened. The great thing is that The Lord has granted us a few glimpses of his Majestic truth. But we are still in process. Our knowledge is so far from being perfect, all we can do is teach what we have received.
The Apostle reminds us.Who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not recieve? 1 Cor 4:7a I think we must take what the Lord gives us and just try to be faithful with that. That's all we can do.

 

I know how you feel, believe me. I was born and raised in Fudamentalist Baptist circles, which are rarely Calvinist. Most attack the doctrines. About five years ago, the Lord reformed my doctrine, and it revolutionized my walk with Him. I continued in the Fundy church I attended, but after a while, I just became more and more grieved and critical of what was being taught. Eventually I left and began visiting a Reformed Baptist church. I fell in love with it. My wife attended with me for a few months, probably hoping this was just a faze or something. She continues to reject the Bible's teaching on this, and so eventually she said that she couldn't go there in good conscience anymore. Unfortunately, I can no longer go back to her church in good conscience either, so we worship at different churches. It was a bit awkward for a while, but at this point, it has become accepted.

Not as bad as my wife being on a different page, but still troubling to me is the fact that my parents believe that I am a heretic. This coming from people who attend a Jack Hyles-protege church which teaches easy believism and King James onlyism.

The truth about God's election is not popular. Sometimes it's not worth arguing about though, and perhaps you would be wise not to cast pearls before swine (Alvin).

My :wr50:

Alan

 

"Yesterday he mentioned that "Spurgeon preached
against Calvinism."

(Sorry, I'm not high-speed, low-drag enough to do the fancy quotes! )

Sounds like he might have gotten hold of Dave Hunt's [u:3e851d689e]What Love is This?[/u:3e851d689e] As far as I know he's the only one who has claimed in public or in print that Spurgeon did not support the idea of limited atonement. Of course anyone familiar with Spurgeon knows this isn't the case, but it kind of puts you in the situation of arguing with someone who is obviously clueless. I hope he benefits from the material you gave him. And if he has got a hold of Dave Hunt's book you can send him to www.whatloveisthis.com. Don't know that he has, but like I said Hunt's the only one I've ever heard make that claim.

 

Craig,
I would stay away from these secondary verses. Take control of the conversation. Start w/ the doctrine of God and work toward the topic of sovereignty and it's exact meaning.

If he refuses to listen, move on. Why become frustrated; God isn't!

 

[quote:d5b8a7260a]
Oops,sorry Craig!
[/quote:d5b8a7260a]
No problem. My father in law still calls me "Gregg"...I always answer to it

 

John 3:16'd to Death!!!

Hi Learner,

My friend I can certainly sympathize with you. Sounds like your friend is Church of Christ maybe? I am going through my
own difficulties only this one is my HUSBAND. I tried for three years after we were married to be a nice little Church of Christer BUT after some order problems in worship I headed for the hills back to the good old PCA.

Heres what my experiecnce has taught me:

These types are about CONTROL while telling you they have none. These days it seems the order of things has certainly been reversed; by that I mean any group that advocates ORDER, SYSTEMS, DISCIPLINE is looked upon as a cult. When in reality, the cult is a form of mind control. Calvinism says here are ALL OF THE SCRIPTURES, decide for yourself. Armininism says here are the facts as I present them, believe what I tell you to believe.

Of course people have not learned how to think so its easier for them to believe what someone tells them to believe. Honey these folks are STUCK IN THE MUD.

Heres what happens when you try to reason with them: YOU CAN'T because they always start out with the premise as the conclusion, their reasoning goes in circles. Logic is linear. Do some research on logic on the net and you can get some really GREAT ideas on how to talk to these people.

I have also found out that these types are very exclusive, excluding anyone but them from heaven. Trust me, WE are not the frozen chosen, they are.

The next time you see him, do not even attempt totalk to him ,just tell him that you understand that the two of you are on different levels of reasoning and scripture interpretation and that you are very sorry but you have to cut off this discourse becasue it is getting nowhere. Reasoning has to go somewhere, obviously this is not. Disassociate yourself with this other churchs' bible study and keep to your own kind. Always be ready to talk and minister to others of different faiths but do not 'throw your pearls before swine'. Its kind of like playing poker, you know when to fold em, know when to hold em. Serious lovers of God will always be ready to make a good faith attempt to study and listen in good conscience. Some just like to fight.

Hope this helps, God is always in control. You never know when your words will take root.

CalsFarmer

 

Cals,
Look up to the right hand corner of your screen. You will see something called 'U2U'. Click on this link. You have a message.

Scott