Heidelcast May 2, 2010 Jason Stellman on the FV, PNW, Relevance, and the 2K

[PuritanCovenanter]

Thanks, I just ordered the Christian idea of the state. I can't believe something so bloodless as R2K would have been held in anything other than contempt by the Reformers.

Could you give an example instead of just your estimation of what you think reformers would have felt?

Baptism was an issue with which they struggled. Read about the Nisbet family. The Nisbest's defended royalty till they were forced to have an Anglican baptize their children. The Reformers struggled with life and truth. One of the Nisbet's lost the all for the cause of Christ. I guess you might need to define what the reformers were also. Ever hear of the ejection and the reformation? I am not trying to be hard. Just informative. Either you stayed like William Gurnall or were ejected. This wasn't a bloodless controversy in my estimation.

 

[Peairtach]

Thanks, I just ordered the Christian idea of the state. I can't believe something so bloodless as R2K would have been held in anything other than contempt by the Reformers.

Yes, but blood was called for by the enemies of the Reformers, Puritans and Covenanters as well. Were they not creatures of their time? Cromwell and the Covenanters could not even agree on whether Charles I should be executed, and went to war over it. Cromwell, not a Presbyterian, won.

The effectiveness or Scripturalness of propagating or preserving God's Kingdom by killing has since been called into question by Dabney and other good men.

Those who propose theocracy a la Moses don't propose that the killing of, e.g., Muslims and Roman Catholics, should start until Biblical Christianity is in the ascendant. But when that happens, in the real power that I believe it will along with Reconstructionists, there is no need to kill those that still cling to false religions, but it is more effective and biblical to assail them with the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.

It seems like a much weaker instrument than the sword of iron, or an uzi, but it is conquering this World.

Scott Clark and Jason Stellman don't seem to be postmillennialists but convinced amillennialists, or they assumed amillennialism in their discussion.

When secular humanism gives up the ghost and Christ's kingdom makes great advances such that a large majority in America and Great Britain are biblical Christians, then you will inevitably see Christian societies and states developing, although I don't believe they will be theonomic in the sense that theonomists believe is biblical, because too many Christians will have realised the errors of simple theonomy.