Regi Addictissimus
Completely sold out to the King
I will most certainly share their response. I pray they made some changes to the verses in question as I now want this set. It is an absolutely stunning presentation of God's Word.
Has anyone read/benefited from the ASV/ALV?
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To be clear, it is not the rendering of John 9:38 that is problematic, just the footnote, which the Bibliotheca edition doesn’t include, anyway.
Regi Addictissimus
Completely sold out to the King
Thanks for that. Yes, you are correct. I don't know why my brain glossed over that in the email. Have you viewed the passage in the ALV? I will bring the footnotes up.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, the footnote is still extremely problematic, so I’m glad a reader’s edition would exclude it!
Scottish Presbyterian
Puritan Board Sophomore
Yeah. I mean, they put the correct rendering into the footnotes, and I think I can interpret the verse as it is to mean what it actually means (maybe). That is, since I believe the whole Bible is God-breathed Scripture as a foundational presupposition, the ASV’s rendering isn’t a problem for me personally. It’s just sad that, as far as I have perused the ASV, 2 Tim. 3:16 seems to be its only flaw. Greg Bahnsen and Al Martin still use(d) it, though, so maybe I can make myself feel better given that fact.
I wouldn't say the only flaw. Check 1 Timothy 3:16 and 1 John 5:7 and Romans 14:10 for instance. I'm sure there are several more if the major verses proving the Deity of Christ and the inspiration of Scripture are wrong. (These 3 are my immediate go to verses to check if a translation is worth even considering as potentially reliable, so first ones to check - ASV fails all 3).
Sure, but the same criticism applies to all of the CT translations. Looks like the ESV and others don't meet the test, either.
So ASV isn't unique here.
Regi Addictissimus
Completely sold out to the King
From Adam Lewis Greene:
"Hello, Robert:
I’m happy to provide the ALV renderings of those two verses, and I’ll also send any others you may be curious about.
In both of these cases, we preserved exactly the sense of the ASV.
On 2 Timothy 3:16–17
It may be interesting to note that this verse, in particular, I decided to run by David deSilva, Trustees’ Distinguished Professor of New Testament and Greek at Ashland Theological Seminary, who helped a lot with reading/reviewing the ALV Apocrypha and New Testament. I asked whether the ASV’s rendering (which was immediately controversial) stood up to the scrutiny of what we currently know about Koine Greek. He told me that the Greek really could go either way and suggested that, since the ASV presents a perfectly valid translation of the Greek, we might as well preserve the more unique interpretation of the ASV—especially considering that most English translations in circulation today go another direction. It is our view that reasonable variety among translations is healthy for difficult-to-translate passages, allowing for better comparison and depth for English-only readers.
ALV:
Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction that is in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely for every good work.
ASV:
Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
On John 9:38
ALV:
And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshipped him.
The ASV is the same, but with the following footnote: “The Greek word denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to a creature (as here) or to the Creator (see 4:20).” I see that Darby and Young have “did him homage” and “bowed before him,” respectively, which to me are both good, perhaps more renderings.
You may of course share all of this on the thread, and please let everyone know that we welcome questions! (Although, admittedly, sometimes it takes me a while to get around to replying.)
Cordially,
Adam"
"Hello, Robert:
I’m happy to provide the ALV renderings of those two verses, and I’ll also send any others you may be curious about.
In both of these cases, we preserved exactly the sense of the ASV.
On 2 Timothy 3:16–17
It may be interesting to note that this verse, in particular, I decided to run by David deSilva, Trustees’ Distinguished Professor of New Testament and Greek at Ashland Theological Seminary, who helped a lot with reading/reviewing the ALV Apocrypha and New Testament. I asked whether the ASV’s rendering (which was immediately controversial) stood up to the scrutiny of what we currently know about Koine Greek. He told me that the Greek really could go either way and suggested that, since the ASV presents a perfectly valid translation of the Greek, we might as well preserve the more unique interpretation of the ASV—especially considering that most English translations in circulation today go another direction. It is our view that reasonable variety among translations is healthy for difficult-to-translate passages, allowing for better comparison and depth for English-only readers.
ALV:
Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction that is in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely for every good work.
ASV:
Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
On John 9:38
ALV:
And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshipped him.
The ASV is the same, but with the following footnote: “The Greek word denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to a creature (as here) or to the Creator (see 4:20).” I see that Darby and Young have “did him homage” and “bowed before him,” respectively, which to me are both good, perhaps more renderings.
You may of course share all of this on the thread, and please let everyone know that we welcome questions! (Although, admittedly, sometimes it takes me a while to get around to replying.)
Cordially,
Adam"
Scottish Presbyterian
Puritan Board Sophomore
I should say no more lest I fall foul of the prohibition on criticising the CT pinned at the top of this forum.
I may be a little dumb because I'm not sure I know what CT means?
It means “Critical Text.” It’s the New Testament text upon which all translations except the Geneva, KJV, NKJV, MEV, and WEB (I think that’s it) are based.
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