God's patience in election

[Darryl Le Roux]

Good day all.

I am struggling with a particular aspect in regards to election that I am trying to wrap my human way of thinking around.

Why is it that the Bible speaks of God's patience with a people in regards to them turning to them?

The sermon this morning was on Mark 12 whereby it states that the Lord has sent His prophets to Israel, yet they have continued to deny Him over and over again. However, this can be used for all people. John 12 also comes to mind. Which is where my question comes in.

The ones whom aren't chosen, will never turn. So why display patience?

 

[Scott Bushey]

Good day all.

I am struggling with a particular aspect in regards to election that I am trying to wrap my human way of thinking around.

Why is it that the Bible speaks of God's patience with a people in regards to them turning to them?

The sermon this morning was on Mark 12 whereby it states that the Lord has sent His prophets to Israel, yet they have continued to deny Him over and over again. However, this can be used for all people. John 12 also comes to mind. Which is where my question comes in.

The ones whom aren't chosen, will never turn. So why display patience?

The Hebrew word can mean a delay....

4900. מָשַׁךְ mashak (604a); a prim. root; to draw, drag:—away(1), bore(1), continue(1), deferred(1), delayed(2), deployed(1), drag(1), drag me away(1), drags(1), draw(3), drawn(2), draws(1), drew(2), extend(1), follow(1), go(1), led(1), long blast(2), make a long blast(1), march(1), prolong(1), prolonged(1), pulled(3), sounds a long blast(1), sows(1), stimulate(1), stretched(1), tall(2), wield(1).

Robert L. Thomas, New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries : Updated Edition (Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc., 1998).

Same for the Greek:

† ὑπομένω, † ὑπομονή.

Contents: A. The Greek World. B. The Old Testament and Later Judaism: 1. ὑπομένειν towards God: to wait on God, to cleave to God; 2. ὑπομένειν towards the World: to endure, stand fast, bear patiently. C. The New Testament: 1. ὑπομένειν towards God: to expect, to wait; 2. ὑπομένειν towards the world: to stand fast, to persevere.

ὑπομένω a. “to stay behind,” “to stand still,” Hom. Od., 10, 232; Jos. Ant., 18, 328; Lk. 2:43; Ac. 17:14; “to stay alive,” Hdt., IV, 149. b. “To expect,” “to await,” “to wait for,” Xen. An., 4, 1, 21; Hdt., IV, 3; VII, 121a. c. “To stay,” “to wait for hostile attacks.” “to stand firm against them,” Hom. Il., 16, 814, also abs., “to endure,” “to remain firm,” Hom. Il., 5, 498; 15, 312; Hdt., VI, 96; Plat. Theaet., 177b: ἀνδρικῶς … ὑπομεῖναι καὶ μὴ ἀνάνδρως φυγεῖν, with acc. of that which one resists: πολιορκίαν, Polyb., 1, 24, 11; πόλεμον, 4, 84, 9, or with inf.: φόρους ἐνεγκεῖν, Polyb., 2, 43, 6, or with part.: Plat. Gorg., 505c: οὗτος ἀνὴρ οὐχ ὑπομένει ὠφελούμενος καὶ αὐτὸς τοῦτο πάσχων, περὶ οὗ ὁ λόγος ἐστίν, κολαζόμενος. d. “To endure,” “to bear,” “to suffer”: δουλείαν, Hdt., VI, 12; αἰσχρόν τι, Plat. Ap., 28c; οὐχ ὑπέμειναν τὰς παρʼ ἐκείνου δωρεάς, Isoc., 4, 94, they did not accept bribes, but rejected them. e. “To stay or persevere with something,” τῇ γνώμῃ, Appian De Bellis Civilibus, 5, 54.
ὑπομονή: a. “Holding out,” “standing fast,” “endurance,” “steadfastness”: so esp. of enduring evils, e.g., λύπης, Ps.-Plat. Def., 412c; πόνων, Jos. Ant., 2, 7; Democr. Fr., 240 (II, 193, 10, Diels5): τὴν τῶν ἀκουσίων (sc. πόνων) ὑπομονήν. Like ὑπομένειν, it covers courageous active resistance to hostile attack, and in this sense is used alongside ἀνδρεία and καρτερία. b. “Expectation,” “waiting,” Aristot. Rhet., III, 9, p. 1410a, 4 (opp. ἀκολούθησις).



Gerhard Kittel, Geoffrey W. Bromiley, and Gerhard Friedrich, eds., Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1964–), 581.

It all comes down to decree and God's perfect timing.

As well, there is patience in regards to the reprobate in that they are 'filling up their cups' of condemnation and that takes time. See matt 23:32 and 1 Thess 2:16.

 

[KMK]

The ones whom aren't chosen, will never turn. So why display patience?

I am not sure that the first part of your question is a question worth asking.

London Baptist Confession:

Chapter 3: Paragraph 7. The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election;18 so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise,19 reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility,20 diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.21

The doctrine of election is revealed by God for the purpose of assuring the hearts of the elect. As a general rule, if the answer to a question question about election will not accomplish that goal, it probably should not be asked.

However, the second part of your question, "So why display patience?" is a great question. The ultimate answer is for His own glory.

LBC:

Chapter 3: Paragraph 3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9

If God was not longsuffering with the wicked, we would never see that side of His glorious character.

 

[Peairtach]

Good day all.

I am struggling with a particular aspect in regards to election that I am trying to wrap my human way of thinking around.

Why is it that the Bible speaks of God's patience with a people in regards to them turning to them?

The sermon this morning was on Mark 12 whereby it states that the Lord has sent His prophets to Israel, yet they have continued to deny Him over and over again. However, this can be used for all people. John 12 also comes to mind. Which is where my question comes in.

The ones whom aren't chosen, will never turn. So why display patience?

Mysteriously it is the reprobates' responsibility that they don't turn. God isn't the author of their sin. So God is patient with them in giving them time and opportunity to turn in this life.

We cannoy fully "find out" the doctrines of election and reprobation.

 

[Cymro]

He sent prophets to His people because they were His church in the OT, thus His patience was exercised toward her. Other nations were not priveleged. But within that external oft rebellious body were His elect.His continual forebearance was solely for His chosen ones sake, and those who He would call through His prophets out of darkness into light. It is I believe similarly highlighted in 2Peter3:9,"the Lord is not slack concerning His promise as some men count slackness but is long suffering to USWARD." The "usward" are those who in previous chapters are designated as "them who have obtained like precious faith," "brethren," and "beloved". His long suffering was, and is for the benefit of the elect.He is not willing that any of His own would perish,and thus suspends judgment until the last elect is brought in. This present period of patience to the church and the world is solely for the eternal donation of a people to His Son may be accomplished. His long suffering also leaves the unbeliever without excuse, in that they have more time to repent. Their inability does not excuse their duty.

 

[Darryl Le Roux]

He sent prophets to His people because they were His church in the OT, thus His patience was exercised toward her. Other nations were not priveleged. But within that external oft rebellious body were His elect.His continual forebearance was solely for His chosen ones sake, and those who He would call through His prophets out of darkness into light. It is I believe similarly highlighted in 2Peter3:9,"the Lord is not slack concerning His promise as some men count slackness but is long suffering to USWARD." The "usward" are those who in previous chapters are designated as "them who have obtained like precious faith," "brethren," and "beloved". His long suffering was, and is for the benefit of the elect.He is not willing that any of His own would perish,and thus suspends judgment until the last elect is brought in. This present period of patience to the church and the world is solely for the eternal donation of a people to His Son may be accomplished. His long suffering also leaves the unbeliever without excuse, in that they have more time to repent. Their inability does not excuse their duty.

Thank you for this, it's extremely helpful.

 

[timfost]

It should be admitted that even an Arminian scheme does not solve the problem. According to an Arminian, God knows who will receive and reject Him because He is omniscient. So why would God command repentance from someone that He knows infallibility will reject it anyway?

In reality, His patience with those who will never come to Him demonstrates 1) the sinful condition of man and 2) the benevolent nature of God. Rom. 2:4 is helpful:

Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

The goodness that God showers on all people should bring them to God. Acts 7:51 speaks of those who continually resist the Spirit. This in no way proves "resistable grace," but demonstrates that God's common dealings with man (common grace, if you will), in part, is God's gentle leading all to repentance. When such benevolence is abused by sinful men, not unto repentance, but rather in puffing oneself up in the gifts that God bestows, it demonstrates the ungratefulness embodied by those who willfully refuse to repent.

The following quotes may be of help:

But with respect to the greater number, it remained unaccompanied with that spirit, and consequently continued to be merely an external calling, without any saving effect. The Apostle, in the following verse, declares that the Jews by their impenitence drew down upon themselves the just anger of God. From this it evidently follows that God externally calls many to whom He has not purposed to give the grace of conversion. It also follows that it cannot be said that when God thus externally calls persons on whom it is not His purpose to bestow grace, His object is only to render them inexcusable. For if that were the case, the Apostle would not have spoken of the riches of his goodness, and forbearance, and long-suffering, --terms which would not be applicable, if, by such a call, it was intended merely to render man inexcusable. (Haldane, commentary on Rom. 2:4)

Men abuse the goodness of God, because they do not rightly apprehend that instead of indicating a purpose not to punish, it is designed to lead them to forsake their sins. The goodness of God leads us to repentance, because it shows us our duty towards a Being who is so kind, because it gives us ground to hope for acceptance. (C. Hodge, commentary on Rom. 2:4)

...the design of his benevolence is far different, and that is, to convert sinners to himself.

...when he treats the transgressors of his law with the same indulgence, his object is to soften by his kindness their perverseness; he yet does not testify that he is already propitious to them, but, on the contrary, invites them torepentance. But if any one brings this objection -- that the Lord sings to the deaf as long as he does not touch inwardly their hearts; we must answer -- that no fault can be found in this case except with our own depravity. But I prefer rendering the word which Paul here uses, leads, rather than invites, for it is more significant; I do not, however, take it in the sense of driving, but of leading as it were by the hand. (Calvin, commentary on Rom. 2:4)