God's Choice in the Election of Stinkers like us

Discussion in 'Calvinism & The Doctrines of Grace' started by FrozenChosen, Apr 22, 2004.

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  1. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Paul Martin,
    To make matters more ironic (moronic), my middle name is???
    You guessed it pal, Paul!

    You guys are sort of, ummm, related to the Jig Meister. Sort of, in a way....you know?:bs2:
  2. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior

    My point in the discussion was that God could've as easily chosen John over Sam and molded Sam to bring Him just as much glory as John. So the statement that God chose John over Sam because John would bring Him more glory, is, in my opinion, false. The Potter is the one who shapes the clay so that these lowly pots would bring Him glory - not pick the clay based off the fact that this lump is better than that lump at bringing Him glory.

    While I sometimes sit and look at the issue and wonder why (see my first post), I realize that whatever the reason God chose me over the kid next door is a matter of His private, personal choice and not open to my eyes (Deut. 29:29).
  3. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    In this we do agree. Well said.:wink:
  4. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Paul writes:
    "We have seen that god has a purpose in electing X over Y (Jacon over Esau, Scott over Sam). And that is because electing X brings God more glory. "


    Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

    "....that the purpose of God, according to election might stand...."

    The purpose of God, in terms of His elective decree IS in fact to bring Himself glory; I agree with this. However, as was presented by Kerry, God does the work, and according to:

    Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

    The vinedresser will in fact bring forth good fruit. Actually, it will be exactly as he planned and decreed. The vinedresser is not hoping for fruit; fruit WILL follow and the extent of the fruit is based upon His sovereignty. If I glorify God, it is because of Him alone. God does not look down the halls of time and choosing me/electing me because He saw how much I would glorify him. I glorify Him, because of Him. Person x is no different in this regard then person y.
  5. rembrandt

    rembrandt Puritan Board Sophomore

    Paul A has so chosen to agee with Paul B, over Paul C. Was it anything in Paul B or Paul C, or was it because Martin in his wisdom agrees with Manata?

  6. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    You guys are wrong on this one; sorry. Listen, if fruit comes from God, and the amount of fruit is predestined or predetermined ("...He that has BEGUN the [i:be79c95f4c]work[/i:be79c95f4c]..." ), The amount of glory God gets is based upon the sanctification that he performs. If it is x or y it is irrelevent as God will sanctify x or y according to His plan and it alone. So, then if God see's me glorifying Him more thasn my neighbor Sam, it is ultimately Him who has glorified Himself through me, something He could have done to either piece of clay.

    [Edited on 4-24-2004 by Scott Bushey]
  7. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Paul writes:
    "YOU brought Him more Glory than sam"
    Scott responds:
    Yes, but thats not why He chose me over Sam.

    for it is God who is working in you both to will and to work for the sake of His good pleasure. (Phil. 2:13, GLT)

    [Edited on 4-25-2004 by Scott Bushey]
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