Founders Documentary on Critical Theory/Social Justice

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Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Santos,

I just noticed that this is now the 3rd thread about the Founders Trailer. One or two have already been closed down. In each of these threads you seem to disagree with me. Can you state what exactly your position is and how it differs from my own?

I believe the Founders is a good group and Pastor Tom Ascol is a good pastor. I believe he gained some artistic help that did not do good service for the Founders. Because of this bad videography, the trailer stunk. After a backlash, Ascol was probably confused as why folks were mad at the trailer. Founders finally issued an apology of sorts and then, months later, the final product came out that was a very good documentary. It was excellent. As I said, I hated the trailer and loved the final product.

Where do you disagree with my assessment so that I can be clear?
 

Santos

Puritan Board Freshman
Recording and then sharing and releasing that phone call is still unethical and illegal in many States whether it is a member, an attender, or a stranger.
You still have not answered my questions.....

There is no pastor/client confidentiality between a pastor and man who is not of his flock that is a regular abuser of said pastor, admittedly. No one that I am aware of at least. I will further engage your other comments if and when you answer the questions I asked plainly.
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
There is no pastor/client confidentiality between a pastor and man who is not of his flock that is a regular abuser of said pastor, admittedly. No one that I am aware of at least.
That is not what Pergy has been saying is it? It was noted over and over again that recording a private conversation and revealing it is unethical and illegal. It doesn't matter if someone is a member of a congregation or not. That is what I am hearing Pergy say. I think he has tried to answer your questions honestly and the best he could. Even about the ARBCA guys who were board Members of Founders.

I would appreciate your answer to his question here. Please don't obfuscate and answer his question. It shouldn't be that hard.
I just noticed that this is now the 3rd thread about the Founders Trailer. One or two have already been closed down. In each of these threads you seem to disagree with me. Can you state what exactly your position is and how it differs from my own?
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
You still have not answered my questions.....

There is no pastor/client confidentiality between a pastor and man who is not of his flock that is a regular abuser of said pastor, admittedly. No one that I am aware of at least. I will further engage your other comments if and when you answer the questions I asked plainly.

Weird flex, brother.

This is a very strange approach you have taken with me.

Instead of answering my own legit questions above, you seem to be clinging to this very narrow topic of pastor-client confidentiality, and seem to be defending the actions of a man who secretly recorded a phone conversation, shared that conversation with others, and then posted it online (even when Tim Hurd mentioned private info about several other friends as well).

Faced with these unethical and illegal actions, you first call me a slanderer and then cling to the strange view that Mr Hurd must first be a formal member of the Apologia Church before pastor-client confidentiality even applies to him.

Really?

In Catholicism, Priest-Client Confidentiality applies to anyone who comes to the priest for confession or to discuss spiritual matters (except in matters of abuse, etc). The party who has come to confess need not be a formal member of that local parish to confess in order for Priest-Client Confidentiality to apply.

But you are saying Mr Hurd must be a formal member of Apologia before he may exercise any expectation of confidentiality in his private interactions with Durbin? That is a very strange jot and tittle to cling to.

I will state again that these actions of secretly taping private conversations and then sharing them online is highly unethical and illegal in many states. It is pastoral abuse. Other parties besides Hurd were mentioned in the secretly taped conversation as well, and so these others are also sinned against as well (they become 3rd party collateral damage).

Durbin then saved these tapes and later used them in retaliation when Tim Hurd criticized Apologia again. I don't know their motives, but from the outcomes, this looks like they recorded Hurd for the purpose of blackmail later.

This seems to be a "hard shepherding" tactic used by other pastors as well, such as Douglas Wilson here: https://www.moscowid.net/2016/02/27/fifty-shades-of-guile/


I repeat: Recording and then sharing and releasing that phone call is still unethical and illegal in many States whether it is a member, an attender, or a stranger.
 

Beoga

Puritan Board Freshman
Did Durbin and crew confess to "secretly" recording the conversation with Tim Hurd?

Or are we accepting the accusation of a man who claims to have been secretly recorded, a man that has confessed to slandering Durbin and crew out of jealousy?

I honestly don't remember as it has been a few weeks since I listened to all the exchanges.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Did Durbin and crew confess to "secretly" recording the conversation with Tim Hurd?

Or are we accepting the accusation of a man who claims to have been secretly recorded, a man that has confessed to slandering Durbin and crew out of jealousy?

I honestly don't remember as it has been a few weeks since I listened to all the exchanges.
Durbin admits it.
 

Santos

Puritan Board Freshman
Weird flex, brother.

This is a very strange approach you have taken with me.

Instead of answering my own legit questions above, you seem to be clinging to this very narrow topic of pastor-client confidentiality, and seem to be defending the actions of a man who secretly recorded a phone conversation, shared that conversation with others, and then posted it online (even when Tim Hurd mentioned private info about several other friends as well).

Faced with these unethical and illegal actions, you first call me a slanderer and then cling to the strange view that Mr Hurd must first be a formal member of the Apologia Church before pastor-client confidentiality even applies to him.

Really?

In Catholicism, Priest-Client Confidentiality applies to anyone who comes to the priest for confession or to discuss spiritual matters (except in matters of abuse, etc). The party who has come to confess need not be a formal member of that local parish to confess in order for Priest-Client Confidentiality to apply.

But you are saying Mr Hurd must be a formal member of Apologia before he may exercise any expectation of confidentiality in his private interactions with Durbin? That is a very strange jot and tittle to cling to.

I will state again that these actions of secretly taping private conversations and then sharing them online is highly unethical and illegal in many states. It is pastoral abuse. Other parties besides Hurd were mentioned in the secretly taped conversation as well, and so these others are also sinned against as well (they become 3rd party collateral damage).

Durbin then saved these tapes and later used them in retaliation when Tim Hurd criticized Apologia again. I don't know their motives, but from the outcomes, this looks like they recorded Hurd for the purpose of blackmail later.

This seems to be a "hard shepherding" tactic used by other pastors as well, such as Douglas Wilson here: https://www.moscowid.net/2016/02/27/fifty-shades-of-guile/


I repeat: Recording and then sharing and releasing that phone call is still unethical and illegal in many States whether it is a member, an attender, or a stranger.
I'm sorry I've been busy the last couple of days. I'll answer your questions when I am done with my chores.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Did Durbin and crew confess to "secretly" recording the conversation with Tim Hurd?

Or are we accepting the accusation of a man who claims to have been secretly recorded, a man that has confessed to slandering Durbin and crew out of jealousy?

I honestly don't remember as it has been a few weeks since I listened to all the exchanges.

Here is the latest on the secret recording of members by Apologia: https://pulpitandpen.org/2020/01/07...5DK9ueI2WfE6tbu4UOG3cKBVSAJmMqyBfBZetBEEAM6uA
It seems to be an aspect of heavy-shepherding and gaining power by unethical means over other people in order to win arguments. How some pastors don't get their teeth punched in, I'll never know.
 

Stephen L Smith

Moderator
Staff member

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Are you sure this is accurate Pergamum? Pulpit and Pen are not known for been true to the 9th Commandment.
They get a lot of things, right, too. The story backs up Tim Hurd's account also. And Durbin admits at least some secret recording in his own youtube. Something fishy is going on, we are dealing with men who are willing to do unethical things to gain power over others.
 

alexandermsmith

Puritan Board Junior
This is all very disturbing. I can't say it's totally suprising though. I have enjoyed Apologia Church's content when it comes to engaging with Mormons. They have some excellent stuff on their channel on that. But this is also a church which has promoted (excessive) alcohol consumption, tattooing and clearly has no problem with their people living rather worldly lifestyles (look at how they dress). This is all rather (depressingly) familiar.
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
Moderation.

Whoa and stop.

The thread was about the SBC documentary, not Apologia Church, and it's going far astray.

Revert back to the original topic or start another thread.

[/Mod]
 
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